Submitting the roster before the game

[ChuckElias]

This is a very nit-picky question. It was discussed ad nauseum on an IAABO interpreter's conference call last season. The only reason I bring it up now is that I was just going through an old "refresher" exam and this question was on it. So I thought I'd throw it out for discussion.

Team A submits their roster before the game. The ref counts 11 players warming up for Team A. When he checks the book, there are 12 names listed. Coach A tells the ref that one player is coming late from another school function but will be here to play at some point. This has happened to everybody, right?

Now, FED 3-2-1 says that the names of all team members must be submitted 10 minutes prior to the game. Fine. But 4-34-4 defines a team member as "a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player."

Now, the kid who is running late is not in uniform and is not eligibe to become a player, since he's not even at the game site. By rule, should we make the coach remove the kid's name from the roster? This would mean (obviously) that when he does show up in uniform and eligible to become a player, his name would have to be added to the book at the cost of a technical foul.

I can't believe that's the intent of the rule. But as written, is this the conclusion we have to come to?

[bob jenkins]

The rule says that all team members must be listed. It doesn't say that additional names can't also be listed.

Let it go.

[JRutledge]

No.

If the player is not going to play and is in the book, why would you care? In my opinion our only concern should be players that are in the book and are going to play and there information is incorrect.

I would ask the coach about the missing player. I know when working varsity games and sometimes tournaments, there are players sometimes missing because of injuries or a player are a lower level players that will be on the bench if needed for the varsity game. I do not think having the name removed is using good common sense.

Peace

[truerookie]

Chuck, by rule we should. I believe the loop hole here is that the player is not even at the game site; thus, he/she is not legally bench personnel unless they are in uniform and eligible to play from my interpretation. So, I would not have the coach remove the name.

[M&M Guy]

How do you know the kid is not in uniform? Do you have definitive information the kid is not at the game site? What, you said you're taking the coach's word for it? How often do you take a coach's word?

I agree with Bob, let it go. It seems like it would be well outside of our jurisdiction.

[rainmaker]

What Bob said.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

What Bob said.

Hey!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hey!

Hey, what?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No.

If the player is not going to play and is in the book, why would you care? In my opinion our only concern should be players that are in the book and are going to play and there information is incorrect.

I would ask the coach about the missing player. I know when working varsity games and sometimes tournaments, there are players sometimes missing because of injuries or a player are a lower level players that will be on the bench if needed for the varsity game. I do not think having the name removed is using good common sense.

Peace

I totally agree with JRut, if this player does play it will probably be in the last couple minutes of a blowout game. Use good judgment and common sense the game is supposed to be for the kids...right.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Hey, what?

I agreed with Bob, too.

And I agreed first (That typing course is really paying dividends...)

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

How do you know the kid is not in uniform?

Because you counted the players in uniform and compared that to the number of players listed in the book?

Other than that I agree with Bob too.

[Nevadaref]

Chuck,
What if the trainer arrived to the gamesite late and a kid must sit in the lockerroom for the first quarter to receive taping or treatment? Are people saying that this kid is not a legal team member because he is not on the bench? What if a team took two vans to a game with half of the team in each vehicle and one of them got a flat tire and is running 45 minutes late?
What if something strange were to happen and this game were to be suspended and continued at a later date? In that case a kid who had a hurt ankle may have recovered and be well enough to participate. For this reason a smart coach would always list his entire team in the book, so that he would not be penalized for adding this kid later.

Look at MLB. They must submit a 25 man roster at the start of each playoff series. Sometimes they know a guy can't play in the first two games, but could help them in the last four or five so they put him on.

I have to say that it would be absolutely absurd to interpret the team member definition to mean that a player cannot be listed in the book at the start of the game, but arrive later, say at halftime, and play without penalty.

The intent is not to penalize tardiness or other commitments. The intent is prevent teams from disguising who is going to play for them in that game. In fact, the listing of a late arrival is declaring to the opponent ahead of time that this kid may play. This is the opposite of any deception and is the sporting thing to do. Why would the NFHS want that penalized?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Other than that I agree with Bob too.

Anyway, back to your comment about counting players - I can't imagine the Fed. wants us to be so strict as to only allow the players we actually see dressed as the only one to be allowed in the game. What if one of them is back in the locker room getting their ankles taped? Or they're under the stands making out with a cheerleader? Even better, what if the coach takes the team back to the locker room for the final chalk session when you're checking the book? Does that mean you can't allow any of the players, because you didn't actually see them when you were officially checking the book?

Sometimes nits need to be picked, but not this time.

So I still agree with Bob.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Because you counted the players in uniform and compared that to the number of players listed in the book?

Other than that I agree with Bob too.

The kid mighta been having a dump. Nothing in the rules saying he can't during warm-up.

Who cares as long as he's in the book?

Agree with Bob also; no-brainer imo.

[Nevadaref]

There is no rule which requires a team member to be present for the pregame warmup period or at any other time prior to his actual entry into the game.