finer points of mechanics
 

Two questions:

1) If my partner is reporting a foul or doing something similar where attention is on them, and I am at the opposite end of the court with the players, and I observe an action where I need to call a T what would be the best thing to do. What until he is done and run over, make a signal right then and stay there, etc? (this next part did not happen but I was thinking about it). What if the palyers invovled do not want to stop or things are progressively getting worse. Blow whistle to get partners, coaches and players attention?Thanks.

You never stop watching them, until you know your partner(s) are watching.

If it's bad enough for you to call something, it's bad enough for an immediate whistle.

If you've got players getting into it, address it immediately....either get to them to seperate them before it gets to a T'able situation or, if it is too late for that, blow it right away! Waiting can only make things worse. The sooner you address it, the fewer T's you'll have to issue and the fewer people you'll have to eject.

I agree completely. Our former interpreter/clinician used to say, "Let 'em see stripes!" Meaning, get between them or get close enough to the situation so that nobody tries something stupid. If they know you're there, it's less likely (although still possible) to escalate.

If it's already escalated, blow right away. That draws attention to the incident. If you wait then nobody saw what you saw and the call is a surprise. Blow right away, let them know something happened, and hopefully stop any retaliation.

You do not need to blow the whistle to call a T in this situation if you ask me. Depending one what happens, you might have to separate players without any whistle at all. First of all if their is some kind of altercation, I do not know if I want a whistle in my mouth so I can have it and my teeth knocked out at the same time. You should only use the whistle if you are far away and the players cannot hear your voice. You might have a fight break out and you will have no whistle but multiple technical fouls.

Peace

Totally disagree, come in hard with a whistle. A Fox 40 from close range does wonders at breaking up players...it's hard to think about punching when your ears are hurting.;)

I think that the other poster's point was that if you did blow the whistle, you might be able to stop the crap and thus avoid having to give out "T"s.

Of course, I'm assuming only.....

Good point about getting the whistle out of your mouth if you do have to step in between players though. Wise move.

That is one thing that makes this country great, we can disagree. I can use my voice to stop a lot of stuff. I do not need my whistle as my only tool to stop players from acting stupid. Also not all officials are made the same. An official that is 6'4 and 250 pounds of muscle is going to be received a little different than someone that is 5'6 and 150 pounds. So not all officials have to use a whistle or their voice to be seen and heard if you get my drift.

Peace

Yep and that 5'6", 150 pound official got there by knowing how to officiate and not because they have "the look" if you get my drift.:rolleyes:

If that is the case I would agree. My only point is that you do not have to use your whistle and the only way to stop action. I did not say you should avoid the whistle at all costs. If you are far enough away and you have to yell across a loud court, the whistle might be the only thing that will get their attention. Also part of good dead ball officiating is to be close to the situation where you would not have to yell at players. The calling officials should never leave the spot of a foul until it is clear that everything is OK in the first place. Then the non-calling official should be a back up to this. But this is a good discussion because there are many variations to how to handle these situations.

Peace

Actually I do not get your drift. My only point was that they might have to use a different tool that works for them. We are not robots out there are more than one way to skin a cat if you get my drift. ;)

I also do not fit the description of either officials I described and I hardly ever use my whistle in these kinds of situations and nothing has ever happened that got completely out of hand in one of my games. Also a good official knows when to use different tools for all kinds of situations.

Peace

Agree, you try something because you think that it's the best option at that particular time under the circumstances you're in, If that doesn't work, then you have to go to Plan B.

Or Plan C....

or Plan D....

Or....

Hmmm...let's see...looking back on all the times I had to get between players I have never once (that I can remember) blown my whistle. Or even (gawd forbid) used my whistle as a weapon. If I have go in I am not going in with the whistle in my mouth. When things calm down I'll hit the whistle before making the T sign. OTOH...if I think a quick T is all that's needed then I'll do that, but certainly never to stun anyone with the whistle. If you use your whistle as a weapon then you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes exception and retaliates.

As to the original question...if you need to go get between players then spit the whistle. If you think a quick T is what's needed then hit the whistle & T away. Do whatever needs to be done, don't worry that your partner is reporting a foul. You'll sort everything out after.

Where did I say use it when you are between players?

I said close hard with a whistle...but I come to expect it from the old guard...I could say the sun will come up tomorrow, we will all pay taxes and die, and you'd still argue against it.:rolleyes:

Agree. I'm not going to have my whistle in my mounth when I'm between the players. I've either already blown it on the way in or will not be blowing it at all unless something else happens that draws a T....just like I said in my original post. I think the point of the whistle on the way in is to get everyone's attention (including your partner who may be reporting with his/her back to the situation).

It's you that's arguing, BZ...

Basically, I don't think using the whistle to break up fighting players is smart. But I did use the whistle once to get a coach to back off of me, and believe me, it worked! That one toot disabled him physically, and gave me a chance to get away. I suppose if a ref were anxious to split up players, a good firm blast MIGHT do the job.

As a football official we do not do this. There are times when we do not blow a whistle at all under the right circumstances. This whistle is a tool, but it certainly is not going to override your voice or your presence near some conflict.

Peace

I do not consider myself the "old guard." If anything I am very new school as compared to many officials that have been around the block. I am also not a spring chicken either and I did not get off the boat yesterday (Enough of the clichés already :D)

Also I am not arguing with your position, I am saying you do not need to use the whistle to accomplish order. Now if you disagree, that is your right to do so. I personally am not going to get upset either way you do it. You and only you will have to deal with the consequences if someone gets upset with your actions.

Peace

One of the first things that they taught me many moons ago in Football was the recommended whistle usage. I was told to use a finger whistle instead of a lanyard/whistle combo. The rationale at that time was that there were fewer quick whistles if you had to bring a whistle up to your mouth. There were no plastic Fox40 whistles around then; we used metal Acme Thunderers with a finger grip. I was told to tape up the finger grip so that I wouldn't cut my fingers on a bare edge if I got run into or knocked down. I was also told not to never take the whistle off my fingers until I hit the dressing room after the game-- the reason being that if someone came at you, you could always defend yourself by smacking them in the nose with your whistle.

Never had to swing at anybody, but I sureasheck got threatened by fans more than a few times coming off the field.

What about your walker?

I think there are some sitch's where the whistle will help, others where it you voice is better. I stopped a bball fight a few years ago with just my voice. I was close enough to verbalize and get between the two before punches were thrown. If I'm far away, I use my whistle, then drop it as I get closer. (To protect my Hollywood smile :D) I think it comes with experience and knowing what to say and knowing how to influence people.

What is this? Dump on JR day?

God'll get you for that!

Take it easy junior, it 's not all about you.

Thanks for everyones input. It sounds like I handled it in an appropriate manner. I closed in rapidly, used a loud voice to tell them to "KNOCK IT OFF" and got between them. By this time I had the whole gyms attention, showed the signal for a double technical, and then let my partner finish. Then he came over so that we did not let the players out of our sight. From there we just moved on with coaches subbing them out, etc.. Thanks for all of the input. Good thoughts and ideas for me.

Your whistle is one of many "tools" that you have to control a game or establish your presence. In this scenario, I would blow the whistle and make the physical signal of "T" and distinguish the player. This not only grabs everyones attention, but also let's players, fans, coaches, etc. know that I've seen a specific act. Often times players retaliate if they think that no one saw the act or that no punishment is coming. The whistle provides a definitive point in time that the act occurs - it helps to combat the: "what did I do?", "didn't you see him?", "when did that happen?" - questions.

As for getting in between players, I'll give it an honest effort. If it gets too volatile, then I'm more inclined to back off and just take numbers and try to restore calm by voice, presence, and proximity. I'm not interested in getting in front of punches (or kicks, helmets, and body slams like the U. of Miami vs FIU football officials).

So, you got something against 6'4"/250lbs officials? :rolleyes: I guess 6'4"/250lb officials don't know how to officiate in your opinion and only get by on their "look". :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

JRut's point had nothing to do with having "the look" as you call it. It has to do with physical presense in THIS particular scenario. A 6'4"/250lb official may not need to use his whistle because his physical presense may be enough to catch the offenders attention. That's all, nothing more, nothing less, and nothing against 5'6"/160lb officials.

GEEZ.

You got the point exactly.

Peace

Hey! Don't drag me into this!! :mad: