Correctable errors
 

Team A is awarded two free throws after being fouled while in the act of shooting, but the first attempt is missed and the ball is rebounded ny team B. Team B then dribbles down to the other end and gets fouled ,but they are not in the one and one. Before putting the ball back in play the referee realizes that team A was supposed to get another free throw attempt. What should be done?
I should know this ,but I have never had this happen to me until last night. Thank God it was a junior high game. We went to the other end and let the player from Team A shoot the other free throw which he made, and then we brought the ball back to the point of interruption and let Team B inbound it. Was we right or not? I was a little embarrased about the whole thing. I been doing Varsity games for 10 years and I just could not remember the ruling, but I sure was glad it was Junior High. We did catch the mistake before we had two dead balls.

I believe you got it right. This is a correctable error, merited free throw not given. You can't put the time back on the clock or take away the foul. Once you found the error and awarded the free throw, the ball should have been given to B at the POI.

Good call, but correct me if I am wrong in any aspect.

Was this noticed during the first dead ball after the clock has started? Sounds like that to me based on what you said. Just go back to shooting the second FT and then go back to the POI when you noticed the mistake.

There are many rules that you will never learn very well until they happen to you. The correctable error rule is one of those rules that a lot of people are shaky on.

Peace

Under FIBA rules:

this is a correcteble error. The freethrow should be shotby A's player. Then you let Team B shot any ft they were awarded after team A's foul or they get the ball (just as after any foul).

We took like a minute or so to decide this. I wanted to make sure we were doing the right thing. I could hear a few fans saying they don't know what they are doing, but I was gonna take as much time as I needed. Oh yeah by the way Team A made the free throw we awarded him which put them ahaead by two. Team B inbounded the ball and scored to send it into O.T. Yeah so you can see where I wanted to get it right, and I think we did. Team A won the game.

If you notice 4 out of the 5 correctable errors involve FTs. You can easily prevent them if you just make sure what you are doing before you shoot any FT. If you are unsure if you are shooting 2 FTs or a 1 and 1 as an example, then stop everything until all officials are sure what is going on. You might have just let your guard down like many of us do during those kinds of games.

Peace

Most correctable errors I've experienced/seen have been due to misinformation from the table...even after doiuble checking the foul count with the table. In those cases, the officials getting together wouldn't fix anything. It doesn't matter how attentive you are, some things are just out of your control.

That's why my eyes hit the scoreboard after every foul. And if the team fouls aren't posted on the scoreboard then I track them in my head. We're the ones who have to answer to the boss after all is said and done.

You'd still have the same ruling without the 2nd foul (it could have just been a violation or timeout that stops the clock). The rebound by B is the "change of possession". From that point until the correctable window expires (live ball after dead ball after clock has run), the resolution is the same.

Still I've had it happen where I was counting, thought we should be shooting two, but the table said 1+1. I went to the table, had them recount and recount again. They had 9 fouls. We shoot 1+1. A1 missed the first. B rebounds, outlets to midcourt, where they call timeout. (They were now down by 1 with under 5 seconds to go). B draws up a play for a winning two pointer. At the end of the timeout, the neutral scorer says..."Uh, ref, I messed up. It should have been two." Crap. We go back to the line for A1's 2nd shot...which is made. B's winning play is now only good for a tie and they've already burned the timeout.

Wow, who was the home team? What did you say or explain to Team B's coach?

It was a men's league on a neutral court. The "captain/coach" did say much about it because he was aware that we double checked and he knew that the other team deserved the FT.

You still can prevent this by taking your time. I agree that ultimately it is out of your hands. I know I can tell when we are close to the bonus. When I am not close I tell my partners who the shoot is and ask the table a coupe of times (or my partners) "Are we in the bonus." Now this is easier when you have a scoreboard with the team fouls. It is not very common anymore to see a scoreboard with only the bonus light. I also tend to ask when I get a change, "How many team fouls do we have?" So you can do a lot of things to make sure we are close to the bonus. I may not prevent all situations, but you can keep everyone on their toes.

Peace

Camron, I'm not dumping on you but how can you go to the table and then walk away without a final, definitive answer? Simply asking the official scorer (I'm assuming that's the "neutral scorer") to show you each and every foul in his book for that half and then asking the unofficial scorer (apparently there was one) if he agrees would have prevented any subsequent problem. If the scorebook *shows* 9 fouls and you agree that is correct then you're going to shoot 1&1. If you had definite knowledge the scorer missed a foul then fix it right then & shoot the 2. In any event settle it completely before you leave. Then when he buzzes you back over the scorer will need to explain exactly where the 10th foul came from and why it wasn't there when you and he went over this the first time.

This way your correctable error would have been avoided.

probably about the same way an official can over-rule his partner's call without getting his input....

Who cares about a final, definitive answer? Don't wanna interrupt the ol' game flow.:)

There was only one scorer...no other book to double check. I don't remember now how he discovered the error, but he did. Unless you plan on keeping the book entirely on your own while running down the floor, you'll never be able to prevent all bookkeeping errors....and even if you did keep the book, you'd still miss something somewhere.

So after you stopped the game to determine exactly what the foul count was he discovered an error and you don't know how. But you decided he had the last word.

Great.

:rolleyes:

I hope you're not getting paid for these games if you don't take them seriously enough to be concerned.

No, you misunderstood me. I said I do not remember the details of the scorebook error. This was 10+ years ago. Forgive me for not remembering all the details of the error. The point remains...you'll never be able to prevent all bookkeeping errors.

That's where we disagree.

My point remains that you should always be able to prevent correctable errors.

Further, you should never go to the table to resolve a scorekeeper's error and walk away without a final, definitive answer.

How can you absolutely, 100%, guarantee that that answer will be correct?

You can't. Even if the book fully crosschecks and everything adds up, it's possible that is is still wrong. Perhaps they recorded a foul on the wrong player/team...in the first minute of the game. Unless you remember every thing that happens on the floor (from beginning to end), there will be some errors that you can't fix.

Bear in mind that I am more than willing to stop and analyze the book if need be. I've taken several minutes on occassion to straighten out a poorly kept book to determine if we were in the bonus or not, if a player really has 5 fouls or not, what the score should be. But, when it all looks in order and adds up, you may not be able to find the error so easily.

Camron, this really makes no sense.

How is it that you do not have the ability to remember and have definite knowledge of every single foul call in the game yet you easily give that ability to the scorer? Don't tell me because the scorer is recording everything, because you already went through everything that was recorded and didn't find anything wrong. And to convince yourself (hopefully) you conferred with your partner - "hey pard, book sez 9, I would swear we're at 10" - and finally everyone agreed the book had it right. So whatever new information the scorer has is not based on something he recorded - IOW neither you nor he has definite knowledge to change the book. Because if you did, you would have changed it the first time.

So, unless the scorer pulls out a slip of paper that says "Note to self: I gave the wrong team a foul in the first minute of the game" I'm not changing a thing.