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-   -   PC on a Tap (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/28486-pc-tap.html)

rainmaker Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:57pm

PC on a Tap
 
Is it everyone's understanding but mine, that there can be no PC on a tap? I don't see it anywhere in the rule or casebooks, I don't see where there's anything that talks about player control on a tap. But I'm writing an article on the Handbook, and I found a place where it says there can be no PC foul on a tap, since there is no player control. Help?!?

rainmaker Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:59pm

Okay, under 4-12 it defines player control as being "holding or dribbling", so I suppose that excludes a tap. But there's nothing specific. Why couldn't this be stated more explicitly? (This is a rhetorical question, I already know the answer!)

JRutledge Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:08am

Juulie,

It is pretty simple if you think about it. The airborne shooter rule is the rule applies to a tap as well as a try.

If you look in the NF Simplified and Illustrated book on page 55, the NF clearly references a tap and an airborne shooter committing a PC foul.

The book references 4-41-1, 5, 6, and 7.

Peace

rainmaker Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:13am

Well, that's how I would have interpreted the whole thing, but whoever wrote the Handbook clearly doesn't agree. Could the Handbook be just plain wrong? Seems pretty weird to me. I mean for a certain paper periodical to get an interp wrong I can understand, and they do it regularly, from what I understand. But for the NFHS themselves to contradict them selves so blatantly, seems just plain scary.

Camron Rust Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:23am

Perhaps, the Handbook (which I don't have with me) is refering to the time before a tap when any foul would be a common foul.

I believe at one time, a tap was not subject to a PC foul as was a traditional try...Jurrassic may remember.

rainmaker Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Perhaps, the Handbook (which I don't have with me) is refering to the time before a tap when any foul would be a common foul.

I believe at one time, a tap was not subject to a PC foul as was a traditional try...Jurrassic may remember.

It says the player control foul "applies only to a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control or by an airborne shooter. This does not apply if the foul is committed during a tap ...." So it seems pretty clear what they intended to say. Okay, so maybe the Handbook is just a little behind the times. At least, I HOPE it's only a little behind.

Jurassic Referee Tue Sep 26, 2006 01:40am

A "tip" or a "tap", Juulie? The rule book uses both terms.:D

See case book play 6.7COMMENT.

rainmaker Tue Sep 26, 2006 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
A "tip" or a "tap", Juulie? The rule book uses both terms.:D

See case book play 6.7COMMENT.

Interesting. The quote I took from the handbook says "tap", and appears to apply to the sort of move a person would try when there is less than .3 on the clock, and they want to get the ball into the basket for some points. Your reference clearly distinguishes between a "tip" and a "tap", as you obviously noticed, so it seems possible that the handbook has a typo, or a misunderstanding about the differences between the two. I like Camron's suggestion, though, that it's left over from some years ago. Perhaps then a tap wasn't so clearly defined, and tip and tap were interchangable.

Darn. All this tipping and tapping, and I need my top hat and cane. Please don't watch, though. It's not even remotely edifying!

Jurassic Referee Tue Sep 26, 2006 07:15pm

There can be a PC foul on a "tap". A tap is a controlled act and it and is considered the same as a try. Therefore the "airborne shooter" rules apply and you can have a PC foul. See rule 4-41, 4-1 and 4-19-6.

There can't be a PC foul on a "tip". A "tip" is regarded as being the same as as batting the ball during a rebound or a jump ball, and it is <b>not</b> considered as being a try. Therefore the "airbone shooter" or continuous motion" rules do not apply on a tip.That's what case book play 6.7COMMENT is saying.

<i>Capisce?</i>

Camron Rust Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
There can be a PC foul on a "tap". A tap is a controlled act and it and is considered the same as a try. Therefore the "airborne shooter" rules apply and you can have a PC foul. See rule 4-41, 4-1 and 4-19-6.

There can't be a PC foul on a "tip". A "tip" is regarded as being the same as as batting the ball during a rebound or a jump ball, and it is not considered as being a try. Therefore the "airbone shooter" or continuous motion" rules do not apply on a tip.That's what case book play 6.7COMMENT is saying.

Capisce?

And the tap isn't a tap until the player makes contact with the ball. Before that point, it's a loose ball that is not in team control. If a foul occurs before the ball contact, it's a common foul.

rainmaker Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:12pm

Okay, I understand the rule, and I appreciate the explanations. Now what about the handbook? Does "it just hasn't been updated lately" explain the problems? Is this worth pointing out to the Fed? And should someone comb through and find all the problems, or is the handbook just a meaningless piece of kindling?

Jurassic Referee Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Okay, I understand the rule, and I appreciate the explanations. Now what about the handbook? Does "it just hasn't been updated lately" explain the problems? Is this worth pointing out to the Fed? And should someone comb through and find all the problems, or is the handbook just a meaningless piece of kindling?

I'll leave all that to someone who might actually give a sh!t.:D


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