First varsity game..
 

Same as previous, newer official 3rd year. My question isn't about rules or interpetations, it about conversing with the coach. Three man I'm the C. right next to the coach. A1 bring ball up court, A2 comes from the block to the wing to set a pick for a1. B2 who is guarding a2 bumps her minor contact i thought but it made the screen move alittle and b1 runs into her. B's coach who is standing next to me says "you got to be kidding, you stood right there and let her throw an illegal screen." I told him politely that it was his player who caused the whole mess, there was no advantaged gain as the ball went out of bounds off of B. Coach B gets upset and starts reciting his unique version of the rule book. Ball changes direction and then quickly back. A1 then dribbles to same wing, and picks up dribble, pivots a few times and then pumps like she is going to pass the ball, however, her pivot foot comes up in the air and she balances on her front foot for about 3 seconds until she finally passes to a team mate. He goes bonkers again, wanting a travel. I explain that it is not a travel until she touchs her pivot foot down with the ball. He again assures me that i do not know the rules. Question is this, how to you converse with a coach who is rating you, who really doesn't know the rules.

You struck a very touchy cord with me in your last sentence. Why do they let coaches rate officials? Nobody knows this answer not even Jurassic Referee! Most coaches don't know the rules, mechanics or coverage areas. IMO you have to officiate the game and the rating process can never enter into your mind during the game.

He's just working you because he knows you're a newer official. Obviously, this is in the first half, so go ahead and nip it.

"Coach, you and I aren't going to be able to talk if you're going to complain about every play you see."

If he doesn't get the message, "Coach, I've heard enough." And give him a stop sign.

Hopefully, he'll get the message.

Regardless of whether or not the coach is rating you, I would reply with short informative phrases. Not even whole sentences. "No travel till the pivot comes back down, Coach". "Incidental contact on that screen, Coach." If the coach persists, you have other ways of dealing with it.

Keep your focus on the game and let the coach say anything he wants until he goes over board and as long as he stays in the coaches box let him whine, next time bring him some cheese with his whine. If he says anything that you feel is not acceptable Whack HIM.

If you watched WNBA, Bill Lambieer was riding the officials through the whole series, some may have whacked him and some tolerated him. As RON REF said in a different post tolerance is different for each person. You will learn with time when enough is enough..

I'm only 23 and am starting my sixth season, my weakest point is handling coaches. I was pretty firey starting out, I whacked almost all my coaches i think ;) . Nowdays I don't have as much trouble with them, but I am labeled as the hothead, which I admit I don't mind having that rep, cuz I still work the big games. Everyone calls me little Javie, lol. My point is, we all got different tolerance levels, but when enuff is enuff, don't be afraid to handle it.

I've worked with older guys who are proud they haven't called a T in ten years...TEN YEARS! Guys like that are the ones who makes guys like me look like hotheads cuz we handle stuff they let go. JMO, later dude :D

It really would depend on the system you are under. I work in a system where coaches can rate us and it really is not that big of a deal. Also if a coach thinks you messed up, it does not matter whether you think you were perfect, this is not going to change the coach's opinion. I would not spend any more time trying to convince a coach that can rate me as compared to an official that will not rate me. Just treat the coach the same way you would if he was not rating you. Even if the coach is not rating you, it is not like they could not complain or tell people you kicked a rule. In a system where there are no ratings, the coach’s word might hold more water. So do not get too caught up in the rating system. Worry about those things you can actually control.

Peace

JRUT, Well said.. "Work on the things you have control over."...

BktBallRef's advice is sage. You need to strike that balance between being approachable but not letting a coach disrespect you or get into a situation where he/she is questioning everything. It's a fine line and takes years to master (and even then you will screw it up once in a while).

As far as coaches having input on ratings: I agree that it's out of your control but I also agree that it's just a horrible way to do things. I would hate to work in an area where coaches were allowed any input on official's ratings.

I have seen official's who were afraid to give a well-deserved T to a coach because of what he would do them in his rating. From what I have seen, it leads to much poorer enforcement of bench decorum.

Z

Yes, I do.

But I'm not gonna tell you now.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/b4.gif

I don't necessarily like this approach. I feel that you should keep your answers brief. Brief is an ambigious(sp?) amount of time, but if you say short, I don't like that for the plain fact that coaches will think you are being just that, short, with them. Now I haven't heard the tone you are using with these short quips and that could change my mind, but I would rather leave interpretation plays alone. If the coach wants to whine about it while you are still on that end of the floor, let him/her. If you have a moment during a dead ball while the ball is still on that end. Be BRIEF and explain what you SAW (don't say "she caused the contact" or "I thought she caused the contact" One sounds cocky and the other sounds like you are unsure of yourself). If you go to the other end and come back and he is still on you, then something has to be addressed.

I am the opposite of CLH in regards to giving Technicals as he progressed. I came into the game not wanting to give anyone a T. Then I went to my first camp which was ran by NBA officials, and so I developed their philosophy, which is much different from the college guys. For example, If a college coach is off his rocker, going crazy and is getting his butt kicked, the college guys say you should not T him and let him ride it out and take his beating like a man. If a NBA coach is doing the same thing, the NBA guys say don't let him mess with your game and try to screw it up. Whack him and send him. I am considered the hothead of my group as well, but my partners love it cause they know I am going to handle the business part of the game and they can just sit back and relax.

Whining is acceptable?

Maybe to you, not to me. I ain't gonna let a coach whine for very long.

When it comes to being short with a coach, Chuck doesn't really have a choice.

That's just not right Jurassic. A total low blow. If I thought of it first I would have put "no pun intended" in my post.

Well, where Chuck is involved, it pretty well has to be a low blow.

He has to stand on a chair to kick a duck in the azz.

Good no-call on the travel. When I first read this I was thinking it was a travel. I looked it up. Casebook 4.43.3 Situation C. Thanks for posting this.

Also, I agree that you can't worry about a coach's ratings. Just call the game and let the chips fall where they may.

So you disagree with me b/c I said "short" instead of "brief", when I obviously meant "short" as a synonym for "brief"? :confused:

I guess if that's the worst critique I get, I'll be pretty happy. Sheesh.

What exactly is a "coaches box"? It sure isn't in the rulebook. ;) (Small point, but worth remembering.)

Nope, not gonna do it.

It's over-kill.:D

Speaking of Ratings
 

That's one area that my state (MO) finally wised up to:

In the 05-06 (and all previous that I've been working) officials handbook we were rated on the following areas:

1) Rules
2) Mechanics
3) Appearance
4) Effort
5) Control
6) Consistency
7) Confidnece
8) Poise
9) Attitude

and according to the 06-07 handbook the areas are:

1) Verbal Communications Skills
2) Appearance
3) Effort
4) Control
5) Consistency
6) Professionalism

so it seems our state at least has readjusted the rated areas to those that concern themselves to the coach/official relationship, which is obviously a good thing.

Absolutely, let him whine all he wants. I'll even give him cheese with that whine. As long as they are respectable let him whine. I'll continue to do my job to the best of my ability. You sound like the hitler of basketball officials. I bet you like hearing your whistle becuase it gives you satisfaction. Keep the game flowing, he will realize that whinning is not going to help him coach his team. If he gets out of control ..... Whackkkkkkkk, I've been doing this long enough and have respect of the coaches, administration,and officials. They know my tolerance and how much they will get away with. this comes with time and experience.

OK.....

I sound like a Hitler? Because I disagreed with you? Well, you sound like an official with no balls. But, then again, whatinthehell do I know? I certainly can't have the time and experience that you have, according to your post above, can I? It's six years of officiating time and experience btw, isn't it?:)

Hey, if you wanna let coaches whine at you continually, be my guest. That's your choice. I don't have to watch you, evaluate or assign you.....which kinda makes me happy too.

My six year may be short in your eyes, but very sucessful. I am respected for my abilities by my peers, and the coaches. Yet your responses to everyone on the Threads has been so far from respectable and encouraging to any new official. Like I said maybe not hitler, but defenitley harsh you certainly have a chip on your shoulder and that may be due to your level of expereince. the only thing I am grateful for is that I don't have to work with you...Now I didn't pick this argument you did by your wise A$$ remarks, not only to me but from what I read to most. If I post it's for constructive remarks, just as the OP did.

Fred, first of all, we're glad you're here on the forum. Nearly everyone's comments here are appreciated. I'm glad for your early success, and that you have the respect of your peers, etc.

Now, please, RELAX.

Jurassic didn't make any smart-@ss comments to you that I can see. He merely said that he doesn't let coaches whine for long. ("Let 'em whine? Not in my games.") Then you called him Hitler. Jurassic's comments about me (all the "short" jokes) are good-natured and long-running. (I may be short, but I run like the wind.)

We're always glad to have new people here and their contributions are valued. But not everyone is going to agree. That's the nature of discussion. Hang out here with us for a while before you decide who the next genocidal dictator is, ok?

Chuck,

I can appreciate what you are saying, I guess I take my officiating very seriously. As far as differences of opinion, I agree i think the rules and game are too open and left to ones interpretation, that is why there are differences of opinion. Although, I choose to give creative criticism especially with one who may be brand new on the court. I was very fortunate to have been trained by a very sucessful D1 official and contribute my sucess to him.
I guess I have to lighten up..

Naw, you just have to learn that you've got a lot to learn....even with your immense <b>six</b> years of experience and your great <b>success</b>, as you keep telling us. You might not realize it, being a legend in your own mind already, but imo your previous posts on this forum haven't exactly backed up your own opinion of yourself.

As Chuck said, I didn't make any wise-azz comments to you; I simply disagreed with you. I've got a feeling that I'll probably be disagreeing with you in the future too. Might be a good idea to learn to deal with it.

I think you are correct that you and I will probably disagree in the future. I may only have six years, but very proud of it. I wonder what you have???? You say that you are knowledgeable. Anyone can recite rules from a book, can you put them in action? I guess I leave with quote, "We agree to disagree". that's what makes this country a great pace to live

No, Fred. I didn't say I was knowledgeable. I didn't say anything in this thread about my experience, resume, success, etc. I'll leave that up to you! I simply gave my <b>opinion</b>.

Lemme make a suggestion to you. Put me on your "Ignore" list. That way you won't have to read any of my posts, or any of my responses to you either. What do you care? You're not here to learn anyway. No need. You already know everything.

Fred, I'm glad that my words came across the way I intended. As I said, we're always glad to have new folks come here and share and learn with the rest of us.

And you will find that many (if not most) of us also take our officiating very seriously. Very seriously. We've got guys here who have worked multiple HS state championships. (I've only made it as far as the semis.) We've got D1 officials on this board. We've got a guy who worked the NCAA D3 Women's Final Four last year. We've got rules interpreters. And Jurassic, as much of a curmudgeon as he is, is a HS assignor, I believe. So he takes officiating very seriously, you can be sure of that.

So there are a lot of guys here who know what they're talking about. While you have every right to be proud of what you've accomplished, don't make the mistake of thinking that you can't learn from the rest of us.

Ok, well, since you're going to be here a while (we all hope), you might as well be introduced to Mr. Annoying Spelling Guy. That happens to be. . . me! Normally, I would consider it a typo, but you did it twice in one sentence. "Success" has two "c"s in it. Just thought you should know.

And while we're at it, you should probably also meet your friendly neighborhood Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy. That happens to be. . . well, what do you know? . . . also me! When you contribute your success to that D1 official, do you get to write it off on your taxes? ;) You probably mean that you attribute it to him/her.

Maybe just a little. But now that JR has growled at you, and you've met the charming Mr. Grammar/Spelling Guy, it should all be smooth sailing from here!! :D

Pleasure to meet you! Thank you for the heads up. there I need some help. Grammar. LOL....

I had to look up curmudgeon in the dictionary, but I think calling someone that gets you even for being called short.

One more thing...when Nevada and Rut are going at it, steer clear. Better to be p****d off than p****d on.

Because coaches control the game -- at every level. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Except on The Official Forum, LOL :)

IMO rating officials by coaches is a pacifier for the coaches by the assignor and/or the league. The coaches in general would love to scratch officials. Most levels will not allow this. But coaches do need to vent. Coaching is their job and they do need a venting outlet to your boss the supervisor. IMO the more we understand the challenges of the coach the better our game management skills can be.

Here's a suggestion: you are breaking in and trying to establish some creditiblity with your peers, coaches and yourself. A big part of officiating is dealing with the sideline. As I said the coach has a job to do and you do too. You need to convey this to him. Also, not all conversation is heard. Especially doing a live ball. Now that being said, he says something about a screen and then a walk. You officiate the live ball. Then on the next deal ball opportunity say a t.o. that you grant you catch the coach and say coach I heard what you said about the screen, the walk and etc. I can't concentrate on you and the game to so please coach your team.
Or tell him you made your point I heard you and walk away.
Or coach I can't give a clinic here. You can't question everything. I'll be happy to explain something that is out of whack but not every play. And walk away.
The key is to treat him/her professionally, brief and concise. Long conversations will not benefit either party. Also, bottom line, treat him like you would want to be treated. Seriously.