Self serving? LOL!

Please explain to me how a dribbler can fumble the ball.

Only a player that is holding the ball can fumble.

There is no fumble when a ball is dribbled off the opponent's foot or any other time a ball is being dribbled.

This maybe the worst argument you have ever made on these boards. :rolleyes:

A1 dribbled, ended his dribble, started another dribble, and you don't know what the call is? :(

1) NFHS rule 4-15-5- Interrupted dribble.

2) Give me time. I'll make more. :D

Why can't bouncing it off another player, whether that player is a teammate or a defender, be ruled a "pass"? Rule 9-5-3 just sez "touched or been touched by another player". If you bounced a ball off of a teammate, could you dribble again? Rule 9-5-3 says so, doesn't it?

And the definition of a pass in R4-31 specifies "another player" too. It doesn't differentiate between a teammate and an opponent.

So the consensus is that it's a double dribble, or a fumble, or nothing, or something.

Now I've got this rule down cold. :confused:

Consensus is in the eye of the beholder.

Got it now?:D

1) Now you're just being silly and obviously egging this on.

How is an interrupted dribble "the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp." A player who is dribbling is not grasping the ball. Okay, you got me...you're wrong and you know it. :p

2) LOL! :D

That's almost as funny as saying an interrupted dribble is a fumble. :)

OK, the dribbler was trying to pass the ball off his opponent's foot. :D

Got any rule(s) that can over-rule the direct language of R9-5-3 though? That rule says that it's <b>not</b> an illegal second dribble if the dribbler lost control after a <b>pass</b> touched or was touched by another player. A player is any of the 5 team members of each team who are legally on the floor. The definition of a "pass" also specifies that it has to be at a "player", not a "teammate". Ergo, if the dribbler passes the ball at any player on the floor, and the ball then touches or is touched by that player, the original passer can go get the ball, pick it up and legally dribble.

Rules citation if you think differently.

Reprint from pg. one:

The ball that bounced off the defender's foot is merely a live and loose ball last touched by a defender.

We have all seen a bounce pass (to a teammate) off a dribble.

If such a pass hits a defender's hand (legally), or other body part (head, chest, forearm, knee, foot) legally, the dribbler may recover and start a new dribble of the ball. Why? It is legal because the rules do not say it is illegal.

[A player, in control (holding, dribbling), who is trapped by two defenders for 4 seconds, bounces the ball off one of the defenders' foot, or leg, and retrieves the ball may dribble. Yes?]

Thus, the action of the dribbled ball accidentally, or intentionally, legally hitting an opponent's foot during the bounce pass and during the dribble are the same. The ball is loose, no player control, and the only way these actions could be adjudged to differ would be in the mind of the official.

mick<!-- / message -->

That bounce is defined to be a pass. Player control was lost. It touched another player. New dribble OK. A1 does so at the risk of A1 catching the ball.

Just for the record, I agreed with you on page 1 too. :D

So my support for your position way back on page one of this thread did nothing for you? I'm so hurt. :(

All we can conclude at this time is that if A1's action is judged by the official to be a pass or a fumble (which then touches another player) he may dribble a second time. If whatever he does with the ball isn't a pass or a fumble, then this would result in a double dribble violation.

JR thinks that the original play is a fumble. I don't.
Some others have stated that it qualifies as a pass. I don't think so.

However, the play rainmaker asked about in which A1 is trapped after using his dribble and therefore throws or bounces the ball off an opponent does meet the definition of a pass.

That pretty much sums 'er up.

Your support was very helpful. Without it I probably would have decided early "I'm wrong." BUT, as is often the case here, Tony seemed to have the final word. Once he said I, pardon me, we, were right, the original sit died and the argument skewed off in other directions.

Shazam! That's what I said all along.

Nah

No way

Totally different situation

Mick, if the play is a pass, then I agree with you. But the original play was not a pass. It was a dribble. I believe that JAR is qualified enough to know the difference and when he specifically states it was a dribble, it's clear. After all, it is HIS play. :)