In a recent game, team A1 did not like some of the officials decisions - paticularly one where the lead's view of a out of bounds ball was blocked by several players - so, when the trail could not help, he properly called a jump ball. One player told the ref he needed glasses - and promptly got a "T".

Thereafter, the players did not address the Ref directly but missed no opportunity (e.g., while lined up for free throws) to loudly "joke" with each other across the paint about how bad the Ref was.

Since they were speaking to each other - not the Ref - albeit very loudly and almost in the administering officials face - I assume they could not be "T'd" per NFHS Rule 10-3-8a which defines unsportsmanlike conduct includes: "Disrespectfully addressing an official..."

Since they were yelling at each other - not the Ref - this rule does not apply?

How would you handle this disrespect to the officials?

Simple answer - T time. I don't care if they're "addressing me". If they are that disrespectful and I hear it - WHACK!

Besides, the rule states that unsportsmanlike acts are not limited to those listed. So, what constitutes an unsportsmanlike act? Whatever I say it is.

If a player or coach doesn't like it, they can join a tiddley winks league.

This is a T all day long! in your situation the administering official if he hears this needs to ring someone up, while the free throws are being shot the off official should get the captains together read them the riot act letting them know that none of the crew will
tolerate this.

I agree completely. If you're not talking to me, then you better not say it loud enough for me to easily hear.

WHACK!!

If the first one is just loud enough for you to barely hear it, try the "hairy eyeball" -- the parenting look that freezes the targeted child in the tracks. Chin down, eyebrows up, eyes focussed intently on the child's, lips clenched. Some kids get the point of this. I have two sons who get it, my daughter never did. Same on the court. If they get it, great. If not, and there's another comment, time to join the chorus here, WHACK!

It is unfortunate that as basketball officials it is now commonplace to deal routinely with this kind of b.s. I know when I played highshool ball 15-20 years ago, my coach would have "yanked" me so fast for this kind crap. With kids ball (rec. and highschool) I have a tendancy not to take any crap whatsoever from the players. In this situation where it seems stupidity has taken over their brains, you may have to "T" players more than once to get the message across, however, once they are sitting on the bench and not playing, the message is usually crystal clear!

How would you handle this disrespect to the officials?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Become a better official and gain some respect.

Most players understand the game and know a blown or missed call. Although often their means to bring it to an official's attention may not be proper, we as officials must quickly evaluate if we got a good look or if we kicked one; then move on from there. If we're kicking calls throughout the game, we need to be our own best critic and do something about it...watch tape or get second opinions. It's part of becoming a better official.

Become a better official and gain some respect.

Most players understand the game and know a blown or missed call. Although often their means to bring it to an official's attention may not be proper, we as officials must quickly evaluate if we got a good look or if we kicked one; then move on from there. If we're kicking calls throughout the game, we need to be our own best critic and do something about it...watch tape or get second opinions. It's part of becoming a better official. [/B][/QUOTE]

No one said that these officials "were kicking calls throughout the game." That's not what happened at all. Without regard to whether a call is missed or not, players complain about calls all the time. They always want the call to go their way.

I think you're missing the point. If I kick a call, that's one thing. I'll let the coach bellyache about it to a point. "Sorry Coach, I missed it." But I'm not going to listen to the same bellyaching 10 trips down the floor later. He's going to get a stop sign and a T if he keeps it up.

With regards to players, I don't have a problem with a player disagreeing with a call. But, again, when it comes to the point that they're joking about how bad they think an officials are, I'm not going to tolerate it. And I bet their coach wouldn't either if he could hear it. Do we joke and make comments about how bad a team is when we're standing in the FT lane? Young people need to learn to respect others. In other walks of life, when disrespect is shown, there are consequences. Basketball is no different.

No one said that these officials "were kicking calls throughout the game." That's not what happened at all. Without regard to whether a call is missed or not, players complain about calls all the time. They always want the call to go their way.

I think you're missing the point. If I kick a call, that's one thing. I'll let the coach bellyache about it to a point. "Sorry Coach, I missed it." But I'm not going to listen to the same bellyaching 10 trips down the floor later. He's going to get a stop sign and a T if he keeps it up.

With regards to players, I don't have a problem with a player disagreeing with a call. But, again, when it comes to the point that they're joking about how bad they think an officials are, I'm not going to tolerate it. And I bet their coach wouldn't either if he could hear it. Do we joke and make comments about how bad a team is when we're standing in the FT lane? Young people need to learn to respect others. In other walks of life, when disrespect is shown, there are consequences. Basketball is no different. [/B][/QUOTE]


Tony...

I agree with your post and how you would handle these sitiations; however, you or I will never know whether this game was officiated poorly or well or if they were kicking calls throughout. But if the refs were being joked about at "every opportunity" my take is they did not have control of the game. With that conclusion, I offered some advice to help prevent future situations of the same nature. I don't feel I missed the point.

One point that was unknown throughout this thread was that the game in question was a Rec. League for children, 18 and over, in a Military community.
"Wondering" is an extremely motivated 3rd year official. Unfortunately, there is a mismatch in officiating quality. He is also little frusterated in trying to apply the quality officiating, found in most Federation programs, and lessons learned from the 2 camps he's attended this summer, in a "Jungle Ball" environment.
Chuck

All the more reason to sack up and take control of the game.

Now I am not saying be a jerk about it, but if this crap is going on you keep wacking until it stops. You cannot "make" them respect you, but if they know they will be penalized for being immature brats maybe they will keep their pie holes shut.

If there was a partner during this game; what field was he picking daisies in? I try to let my partners clean up their own garbage, but if I know I am working with a younger official I will only listen to so much before I grab a broom and take care of it for him.

AMEN!!<p>I'm also in the military and have done my share of intramural/rec. league ball. Sometimes the only answer is to run 3 or 4 guys before they get the point. Guess what? Next time they have you as an official, they tend to mind their Ps and Qs a little better. :)

players will push it to the limit, that is a given if they know they can get away with it, why not? but, your job as an official, the administration of the game, is you must keep the players,fans, and especially the coaches in line at all times.

an official must have "tough skin" but when the line is crossed, it is your responsbility to throw the T. you don't want the players to create a mockery of your game. you not enorcing the rules only results in you being percieved as though you are not comptent in handling the rules and you can't control your game, this is not a good trait to possess. but, you must make the call, the RIGHT CALL.

a wise official once told me that a good ref is out there for the fun of the game and to give back to the kids, what are we giving back if we let them do anything they want, when it doesn't sound as though it is in their best interest. good luck and have fun with it, it is a very rewarding sport, but always remember why you are out there


__________________________
Keep your eye on the prize

Doug

[Edited by Doug on Aug 9th, 2001 at 11:33 PM]

I just wanted to thank you all for your input. As "Just Curious" stated, this was a military rec league. I do realize that I allowed their conduct to get way out of control and I lost a lot of sleep thinking about what I would do - within the rules - if it started to happen again.

Although I had virtually no support from my ref parter (she is part of the player's social group - and offcourt in a corner BSing with a player while I was reporting and trying to get technical foul shots accomplished ) - your inputs will help me greatly in the future. I know I still make officiating mistakes, but most observers would tell you I work as hard as anyone to improve and learn.

As they say, you are showing the first signs of being a ggod official.

When you hurt and worry over blown call or wondering if you could have done something better you are on the right track and have the passion. These are the things that make you learn and want to get back out on the floor ASAP. It is also what make you a good official.

When you loose the burn, it is time to hang 'em up.

These types of games aren't always the most fun or easiest to do, especially with a non-chalant partner. I call these types of games "outside the box" games. I use them to try new things (i.e. think or act outside the box). Too often we get in a comfortable rythm with our refereeing. Even the best referees try to make themselves better and this cannot be accomplished unless you step outside the box every once and a while. It may be a mechanics change or you may want to use some communication techniques you've never tried before. It doesn't always work out but when it does you walk away from a sh*t game with at least some accomplishments and satisfaction.

As someone earlier stated, if it's loud enough for me to hear, it warrants the "T". I am by no means saying that you walk on the floor with bunny ears but disrespect is disrespect and if you hear it, penalize it. I also agree that if it takes the drastic actions of running 3 or 4 players or calling the game altogether, so be it. The players did it to themselves. The partner in this case also should have stepped up and helped with controlling the situation. It is equally as bad if one official is trying to do the right thing and his/her partner is hanging him/her out to dry.

Jeff is right, you always have to walk away from the game with some positive thoughts on it, but also focus on one thing that you wish to improve on during the game.

Also, keep a journel of what games you have worked, who your partner was, how it went, 2 good things, and 2 bad things. every week look at it and see if a pattern has formed, maybe you need to make some changes in how you operate your game/officiating.

but, NEVER in a game should a player disrespect you or your partner. usually, if my partner is expierenced enough to fend for himself i'll let him throw the T if he is getting railed on, but if not, throw the T. you have to figure out where and when the T is appropriate, this will come with expierence.


1. Will this individual recieveing the T make the game better for the players?

2. Motives, if the player has a legit fight, hear him/her out, but once they cross the line of disrespecting me or my partner, getting personal, they are out faster than a heartbeat. they may recieve one warning depending on the severaty, but the line has to be drawn and you must do it, control is the a big part of basketball. Do the players respect us? Do thy realize that everything is not permissable? you must get to the point where you are confrotable with your calls. hang in


__________________________
Keep your eye on the prize

Doug

It happened today.,....
 

I was working a tournament game with a very inexperienced partner.

She made a solid call. (Blocking - player driving to the hoop.) The "fouler" got all upset and started a verbal tirade toward her. I gave her a few seconds to react (whack him) and then took care of business. The player was removed from the game (as tournament rules required.)

The "T" definitely had a sombering effect on the increasingly aggressive edge in the game.

After the game, my partner was extremely thankful about my intervention by stepping in and helping her "clear her head and regain her composure".

It was definitely a "learning experience" for her.


P.S. : "WONDERING" your confidence will build with more floor time and discussion with experienced officials, such as those here.

who was this partner willy, i didn't know we had a female reff in our area

Doug
 

She was my wife and the kids are now in a foster home... (Just Kidding :D)

I'll 'splain the truth to ya later.

Hope all is well your way!

Doug's suggestion of keeping a journal and recording who your partner was, how it went and a couple things to work on is a great idea!

I'm also a long-distance runner and I keep such a log for my running. So it makes perfect sense to do the same for my officiating. It will dovetail perfectly with my current list of things to work on.