Pre Game
 

Went to two camps this summer. One of the camps stressed how important pregame and post game meetings are. I have some handouts that outline certin situations to discuss with your partner or partners (3 person). With this vast knowledge on this forum is there anything in your pregame that you stress to your partners and will you share the information with the forum?? Thanks! By the way the loader is parked for the Summer****:D :D

At the bottom of the cliff, where you usually park it? :eek:

You've been to two camps. You know stuff.

Will you share with the forum?;)
mick

One that I always use, I usually say more for myself than my partner. OFF-BALL, OFF-BALL, OFF-BALL...any idiot with 3 cents in their pocket can call the ball. The refs that move up are the ones that get the off-ball calls!!!!

We have a two-person and three-person pregame form on our association website which lists a lot of the things I talk about with my partners in a pregame conference.

http://www.scboa.com/html/forms.html (page down to "PREGAME CONFERENCE FORMS")

Z

Thats a great point. Especially if you are trying to move up. Observers like officials that make good calls off-ball... especially in their own area. Very rarely does a game need six eyes on the ball; very rarely does it need four eyes on the ball! Stay home, make the calls and trust your partner. Most experienced referees can tell if their partner is a strong or weak official before they even walk on the floor. You will know before the game even starts if "your" areas are going to be wider (so you can help out and pick up the slack) or smaller (because you are working with a Jim Burr and don't want to over step your boundary).

Another thing I like to talk about is keeping it even. If I make a call at one end of the floor, my partner should know about it so they can make the same call at the other end (if the same or similar situation should happen down there). If the crew is making consistent calls at both ends of the floor, no one can complain.

Thanks for the website! Nice one page summary- clear--
Stew in VA

I think that if you want others to share with you, you should also share with the forum, afterall you went to 2 camps. Spread the wealth :D

So much with so little space . How to position yourself on the court so you can see better angles. Slow down and relax while working games. Never and I mean never make a travel calll in front of your partner.( can be brought up at half time or the at the closest break):) Spacing in the post position between def and off. Don't worry about the quick sand area, you can look from that area too. On lead in a two man go to where the players are so you can see the post position area, but pre game that with your partner so he knows what you are doing. All great women and men who worked Highschool and DivII and DivI. If I can remember just a few things and practice them this year I'll be doing great.

Never? Here's a situation for you. Last seconds of a game, it is a 2 point game, shot goes up .... There is a significant travel that for some reason partner didn't see, but the other referee(s) did.

So after the game, your assignor comes in and says great game up until that travel that we didn't get. They ask if anyone else saw it. Yes, I saw it, but I was told at camp, NEVER call traveling in front of my partner. The assingnor says that you all were in line to get some really good playoff games until that moment. That just doesn't fly in this situation. Never is too restrictive and not realistic. Sometimes the C/T officials' primary call is a travel in the post in front of the L. This is something that I cover in pre-game, halftime, and at deadball periods late in close games. Better to be good, than to look good in this situation.

I realize that this next comment is likely to draw criticism, but in talking with various assignors that I work for about this situation, "get the play right, and worry about calling in front of your partner later." The assignor would rather you do this so that they don't have to hear about how the ref's missed one.

I agree that "never" is too restrictive. There are times when an official's primary or secondary coverage area might be in front of a partner. That being said, I think Dave Dow's evaluator probably meant that you should not call a travel that is right in front of your partner when it is not in your primary or secondary coverage area. And I agree (with the exception of an occasional sub-varsity game when I am helping train a brand new official who needs my help in his/her area).

The assignors I work for expect an official to be able to call an obvious travel in their own area. In the end-of-game situation that you bring up, they would want to know why the responsible official missed the obvious travel. They would not want the other two officials ball watching out of their areas.

My assignors expect the other two officials to trust their partners and watch their own areas. What's the point of having 3 officials on the floor if we are all watching the same thing? Who is watching the other 8 players?

Calling a travel that is out of your primary or secondary coverage area is a great way to expose yourself as a ball watcher.

Z

Agreed, just merely pointing out that there are exceptions and we must train our brain to recognize them.

Alot of newer officials get told "stay out of my area" and then, when they are on a crew where they are the "veteran," they don't make the adjustment. This is the type of call/no call that can hurt an officials career/confidence (or adversely affects the game), but the intent to respect the primary of another official was coming from a good place because it is so ingrained on them.

PREGAME CONFERENCE

Court Coverage:
Trail’s Primary Responsibilities:
- Sideline And Division Line
- Last Second Shot
- Drives Starting In Primary
- Bring Subs In
- Weak Side Rebound Coverage
Lead’s Primary Responsibilities:
- Endline And Sideline
- Post Play
- Illegal Screens At Elbows
Stay In Your Primary, It Must Be Obvious To Come Out Of Your Primary

Coaches And Captains:
- Players properly equipped.
- Players wear uniforms properly.
- Practice good sportsmanship.

Double Whistles:
- Let’s both hold our preliminary signal and not give a block or player control signal.
- Make eye contact with each other.
- Give the call to whoever has the primary coverage, unless you definitely have something different that happened first.
- Opposite signals: Assess both fouls. Count the basket if the ball was released before the contact. Resume with the Point of Interruption.

Pass And Crash:
- Let’s have the Lead official follow the pass, stay with the ball.
- The Trail will be responsible for the crash.

Out-Of-Bounds Help:
- If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point.
- If I signal but I get it wrong, then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

Press Coverage:
- Help each other. New Lead will wait at midcourt.

Technical Fouls:
- If I T a coach, get me away from the coach. The situation is heated and I don’t want to whack the coach back-to-back. Let’s move away from the benches. Non calling official should inform the coach that the coaching box privilege has been lost.
- Let’s get together and make sure we administer the penalty or penalties correctly and in the correct order and at the correct basket.
- If one official issues a warning to somebody (player or coach), make sure the other official knows. If I’ve already warned the coach, the coach shouldn’t get a free shot at you.

Two-Point/Three-Point Shot:
- If one official incorrectly signals the number of points, the other official will simply blow the whistle immediately, discuss the play with our partner, come to a decision, signal the correct number of points to the table, and resume the game. We will only correct if we are 100% sure.

Goaltending And Basket Interference:
- 99% of the time, the Trail will be responsible for the call.
- Lead can help out on a quick shot in transition, when Trail hasn’t made it into the frontcourt yet.
- Let’s remember that it’s never basket interference or goaltending to slap the backboard. Coaches and fans always want it, but we can’t award the points.

Last Shot:
- 99% of the time, the Trail will be responsible for the call.
- Let’s both have an opinion, in case Trail’s not sure.
- How will we handle a full-court pass when the Trail is stuck in the backcourt?

Foul Mechanics:
- Preliminary signal given at spot of foul for all common fouls.
- Calling official must designate throwin spot or number of shots.
- Noncalling official, get the shooter. If the ball enters the basket, inform partner that ball went in.

Throw Ins:
- Ten players, eye contact, check table, check clock.

Timeout Mechanics:
- When the ball is dead, we must be alive.
- Team calling timeout must have player dribbling or holding the ball.
- Both officials must know the game situation when play resumes following a timeout (team, direction, spot or run baseline, shooter, number of shots).
- One official at spot of throwin or free throw line with ball facing direction in which it will be put into play. Other official at division line, quarter for 30 second and three quarters for 60 second.

Post Play:
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block.
- Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand.
- As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul.
- Remember the RIDD’s. Don’t let players: Redirect, Impede, Displace, or Dislodge.

Ball-Handler / Hand-Checking:
- Two hands on the ball-handler is a foul. Automatic.
- One hand that stays on the dribbler is a foul.
- Let’s not let a defender ride the dribbler as the ball is coming from backcourt to frontcourt.
- Remember SBQ. If the dribbler’s Speed, Balance, or Quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul.

Screens:
- We must work hard off the ball.
- In the first half especially, let’s clean up the screening action. The screening action will be right in front of the defensive coach in the first half, so if the coach sees an illegal screen, we should too.
- In the second half, with the defensive coach 60 feet away, let’s be aware of the screening, but we don’t need to focus quite as hard on it. If there’s an obvious call to be made, let’s absolutely make it; but we won’t make it our “point of emphasis” in the second half.

Consistency:
- Let’s see if we can call the same game. Be consistent with each other.
- Let’s try to remember what we’ve called earlier in the game, and what we haven’t called. Be consistent with what has already happened in the game.
- If I have a very close block/charge play and I call a blocking foul, then the next time you have a similar block/charge play, you should have a blocking foul.

Game Situation Awareness:
- One of us should quickly check the clock after every whistle to make sure the clock stops properly.
- One of us should check the clock every time it should start to make sure it does so.
- Let’s try to be aware of the foul count during the game. We don’t want to be surprised when it’s time to shoot the bonus. If we know that the next foul will result in bonus free throws, we’ll be more likely to remember our shooter.

Last Two Minutes:
- We’re not calling anything in the last two minutes if we haven’t already called it earlier in the game, unless it’s so blatant that it can’t be ignored. We don’t want our first illegal screen to be called with 30 seconds left in the game; but if the illegal screen puts a player into the first row of the bleachers, then we have to call it.
- Let’s not put the whistles away in the last two minutes: That wouldn’t be consistent with the way we’ve been calling the game. If the game dictates it, let the players win or lose the game at the line. We don’t want to be the ones who decide the game by ignoring obvious fouls just to get the game over.
- End of game strategic fouls: If the winning team is just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws, then let’s call the foul immediately, so the ballhandler doesn’t get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense. If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey from behind, or if the ballhandler receives a bear hug,we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

2006-07 Rule Changes:
- Changed the guidelines for headbands and sweatbands.
- Added that a school logo/mascot is also permitted on the pants, compression shorts, sweatbands and headbands.
- The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock when a timer’s mistake has occurred.
- A fourth delay situation was added for water on the court following any time-out.
- Changed the procedure for delay warnings to only one warning for any of four delay situations (previously three).
- Established a new signal for a team-control foul. The arm is extended and the fist is punched.
- Clarified that a player who has any amount of blood on his/her uniform shall be directed to leave the game until the situation is corrected.
- Clarified that a closely guarded count is terminated when an offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past a defensive player.
- Clarified that an unsporting foul can be a noncontact technical foul which involves behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.
- Clarified that a player is one of five team members who are legally in the game at any given time except intermission and that during an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.
5-11-2 Clarified that during a 30-second time-out, no on-court entertainment should occur.

2006-07 Points Of Emphasis:
- Concussions
- Uniforms
- Time-outs
- Intentional Fouls
- Rule Enforcement/Proper Signal Use

Wow...that's a comprehensive list. Thanks.

If you make a travel call right in front of me late in the game when the games on the line and its a travel that I got blocked out of for some reason.............................. I am going to say thanks!!!!

Bobbymo,

You won't get the chance to thank me. If that isn't my primary or secondary coverage area, I won't be looking there. I trust you as my partner. My assignor wouldn't have put you on that big game with me if you weren't capable. You will get yourself into position and make that call.

If the travel happens in my secondary coverage area, I'll help you out if it's an obvious travel that you missed. But if it's that obvious, we need to talk after the game about why you didn't get yourself into good position to make that obvious call at a crucial time. You lose credibility with both coaches if I have to help you out on that one.

Z

Z-

I agree with you for the most part but as we all know.... As hard as we try to get in the best position to "see the whole play" there are still times when things happen and we get blocked out. It sucks when that happens but it still can happen at no matter what level we are working at.... So if it would happen and my partners saw it.. I would expect them to get it. ESPECIALY AT THE END OF A GAME!!!! I trust my partners also but I believe that our assignor trusts us as a crew to get the play right!!!

To me its the same thing as a last second shot.. Is it a 2 or 3??? Before the buzzer or not?? Most people pregame that in that sittuation we should all take a quick look... In case needed to help out... Why??? To get the play right!!!

I would rather explain to an assignor that I got blocked out of a play and give my partner credit for getting it right then try to explain why someone on our crew saw it and didnt make the call. Lets just get it correct.... Isn't that our job?

Believe me, I am going to do everything I can to get in the best position that I can to be able to make the call. I have refereed many games at many differant levels and you know what??? I have missed a few calls over the years. I will be the 1st to admit that. Am I proud of it .. NO ...but it happens and it makes me work harder every single time I hit the court to not let it happen again.......JMO

A little too comprehensive for me. My non-negotiables for pre-game are, last-minute shot, pass-crash, eye-contact during play, technicals, calling tight or loose, getting together for conferences, primaries and secondaries, any knowledge about the teams or coaches, my poe's, partner's poe's, giving and requesting help, talking to coaches, warm up time protocols, and anything this partner and I had trouble with the last time we worked together. Much more than that, and the pre-game runs on into the first quarter!

But your partners have their own responsibilities. If they have to call travels in your area, who is reffing the other 8 players? What if both of your partners are looking in your area ("helping") and two rebounders start pushing and shoving each other and nobody is watching them? Now you have a worse mess than a missed travel.

We know which official has the clock in that situation because it's part of any decent pregame. If it's so close at the buzzer that the official with clock responsibilities wants my opinion, he/she can wave me in and I'll give them info on what I <b>heard </b>(not what a I saw because I'm still <i> reffing </i>the game and <i>listening</i> for the horn when I know the clock is getting near 00:00). But that is a different situation than an official reffing their partner's area instead of their own. Besides, I'm not going to be a lot of help because if the shot came out of your area, I wasn't watching the shooter (I could tell a shot went up out of my periphery or because players started to work for rebounding position) and I don't know if the ball left his/her hand before the horn.

Our job is to work as a crew, trust each other, and cover our own areas. Honestly, if I can't trust you to get an obvious travel in your area than we shouldn't be working a game together. Partners miss calls. That's reality. Unless you're a brand newbie, I'm not out there babysitting you. I'm letting you do your job.

I've missed calls too. We all do. Even the refs at the highest levels miss a call now and then. I cannot recall a single time of ever seeing a D-1 or NBA ref calling a travel in front of one of his/her partners when it was not their primary or secondary area. It would completely ruin crew integrity. Besides, if it happened right in front of an official and didn't get called, maybe it wasn't a travel and it just looked like one from the ball watcher who was looking out of his/her area.

Z

If you make a travel call that was not there, I will kill you in the locker room. ;)

Peace

[quote=zebraman]But your partners have their own responsibilities. If they have to call travels in your area, who is reffing the other 8 players? What if both of your partners are looking in your area ("helping") and two rebounders start pushing and shoving each other and nobody is watching them? Now you have a worse mess than a missed travel

I agree with what you are saying but I am talking about if its a secondary coverage... Or if there is no action in your primary... "Extending your coverage"



We know which official has the clock in that situation because it's part of any decent pregame. If it's so close at the buzzer that the official with clock responsibilities wants my opinion, he/she can wave me in and I'll give them info on what I heard (not what a I saw because I'm still reffing the game and listening for the horn when I know the clock is getting near 00:00). But that is a different situation than an official reffing their partner's area instead of their own. Besides, I'm not going to be a lot of help because if the shot came out of your area, I wasn't watching the shooter (I could tell a shot went up out of my periphery or because players started to work for rebounding position) and I don't know if the ball left his/her hand before the horn.

To me a good partner will help out if /when they can ( if there is no action in their area).. At least be able to give an oppinion if needed)



Our job is to work as a crew, trust each other, and cover our own areas. Honestly, if I can't trust you to get an obvious travel in your area than we shouldn't be working a game together. Partners miss calls. That's reality. Unless you're a brand newbie, I'm not out there babysitting you. I'm letting you do your job.

Not looking for a babbysitter at all but if its an obvious call that need to be called... I really think a partner needs to go get it if they see it



I've missed calls too. We all do. Even the refs at the highest levels miss a call now and then. I cannot recall a single time of ever seeing a D-1 or NBA ref calling a travel in front of one of his/her partners when it was not their primary or secondary area. It would completely ruin crew integrity. Besides, if it happened right in front of an official and didn't get called, maybe it wasn't a travel and it just looked like one from the ball watcher who was looking out of his/her area.


I agree But most of what I am talking about would be in a secondary coverage... But it could also be " right in front of a partner" like was stated in an earlier post.

I think we are on the same page here for the most part!!!

Bobby Mo

That sounds wonderful, but what if they are completely wrong? What if they "think" they saw something that the official in their primary clearly saw? One of the things about travel calls as this is commonly missed. I do not want an official calling a travel when they might not have seen the entire play. Usually travel calls are the first thing I comment in the locker room about. Usually a partner called something that did not happen. I just know if at the end of the game you make a call like that, you better be right. This play will be reviewed over and over if a team loses based on that possession.

Peace

Three things to remember is this order:

1. The Game
2. Your Partners
3. Yourself

When making decisions just remember to follow this formula above.

Getting the call right is most important, if there is any crew discomfort that can be delt with later.

I have developed a couple different pre-games. You can find them here: http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=24907

J_Rut

I agree with you but at the same time...I believe that you should never make any call that you are not 100% sure of.

The problem with your theory is the fact that most calls like this are not 100% correct. Is trusting your partner that difficult?

Peace

Official's personal philosophies are influenced by experiences that have happened to them. When our state first started doing 3-person, I thought that straying out of our primary and secondary areas to help a partner a little bit now and then was acceptable. I don't believe that anymore.

About halfway thought that first season of 3-person, I was working a closely-contested game with two veteran partners. The partner working the trail position at the time is top notch and has worked a 4A state championship. My L is solid, but not a guy I'd want to work a huge game with. So I'm C with a couple of players in my area but they aren't being competitive with each other at all. So I stray and watch the drive out of the T's area instead of getting myself into rebounding position as I should. A jumble of players get in between the T and A1 so he has no view of the shot. A shot is taken <b>right in front of the L</b>, just outside the key on the side opposite me. I see a fair amount of contact on the arm by B1 from my C position. The L has no whistle. I hesitate and then come in to take the call. No problems and we shoot 2.

Later in the game, I realize that my partner (who was the L in the sitch I just mentioned) is getting questioned on almost every call by the coaches. Even the routine ones. Why? Because I took away his credibility by taking a call right in front of him. Even if my call was correct, I just told everyone in the gym (and especially the coaches) that I did not trust my partner.

What would be better for the game..... allowing that contact to go uncalled or making the "right call" and taking away my partner's credibility like I did?

I should NOT have made that call and I apologized to him for it after the game.

Z

I tend to disagree with you, you made the right call because the game comes first. If what you wrote is correct this official doesn't have any credibility if you make that call or not. If you don't make that call the coaches still get on him and now they get on the entire crew for not seeing the obvious foul. The problem was not with you making the call but with a lead not making the call. The lead and trail should just thank you for picking up the call. We are a team out there.

And team members trust each other. I cut my partner's legs out from under him by taking his call. Since it was right in front of him, maybe he had a better angle than I did and maybe it was a call that could have been passed on.

That partner is pretty solid. Not the best official every, but certainly competent. He could have handled a conversation with a coach about why he did not make the call. I took that chance away from him.

The problem was me straying out of my coverage area. I was wrong. The game would have been better of without me putting air in my whistle in that situation.

Z

When you talked to him after the game what did he say that he saw? Was the foul marginal or was it a foul you thought you saw? I have worked games when I am the lead and there is a drive from the wing and there is contact right in front of me on the backside and I can't see a thing because the play blows up on you and the Trail comes in with a great help call. The play was three feet in front of me and an officials from 20 feet with a better look comes in and gets the call.

Ok, let me play devil's advocate here for a moment. Are you 100% sure the coaches were on your partner solely because you made that call in his area? Or could it be because he was "solid, but not a guy I'd want to work a huge game with", iow, the weakest guy on the crew? Could there have been other small things that happened during the game that let the coaches think they could question his calls? Have you talked to those coaches since that game, and have they told you that was the case?

I certainly agree with the philosophy on staying in your area. I think it's been proven many times that calls made outside an official's area are more likely to be wrong. However, I'm not sure I would pass on a call that I'm sure happened, and I'm sure my partner didn't pass on it but just missed it, even if it was outside my area. If the issue is credibility, how do you explain to a coach that you saw the foul, but just didn't call it solely because it was not in your area? I would think that would lower your credibilty as a crew much more than making a correct call that your partner missed. I'm just not convinced coaches are smart enough, or thinking about that during a game. I would think they are picking up on more than just that one call to start questioning the rest of your partner's calls.

He said what any official in that situation would probably say, "hey, no problem." It's been a few years ago, but I don't think he remembered the play when I brought it up after the game.

The contact was a hit on the arm. Not a major slap, but enough that I was sure it affected the shot. But since it was right in front of him, maybe I didn't see what I thought I saw. Maybe he saw the entire play and thought that it didn't affect the shot. Or maybe he thought the contact occurred after the shot was gone.

The point is that I had no business looking there and I caused a problem by reffing out of my area and conveying to everyone that my partner wasn't completely trusted by the crew. Bad Zebraman! :)

In the play you referred to above, the foul that happened in front of you is the trail's call (any drive out of the T or C's area going right to the hoop is theirs to take all the way). And plays in front of you might often be in the T's secondary coverage area too. The C has no business looking outside the far lane line.

Z

Yep. I've worked many games with him and never had any problems with coaches "picking on him." His calls are good, he just isn't the greatest game manager ever. He has good "presence" and is believable. When I made that call, it appeared as if I did not trust that partner. I can remember the whole play vividily.

Z

The reason I brought up the play from the wing is that the coaches just see that the call is right in front of the Lead and the Trail is making the call, they don't know coverage areas!

We've been down this road before. Any remember the thread "How far will you go to save a game?" ?:rolleyes:

A good trail will close in on that call and it will be believable. I don't think a C is going to run through all the players in the key to try to make a cross-court call believable. :)

There is a reason that each position has primary and secondary coverage areas. You own your primary area. You help out in your secondary area. You stay out of the other areas because you have partners who have much better looks at those plays.

Z

zebraman - can I ask a question here? (ok more than just one)...was it a foul? If it was a foul, then good job! If it wasn't a foul - then that's another situation that we all try to avoid.

My philosophy that I share with my partners in pre-game is: get the call right! If you see an obvious foul/a "must get" foul in my area, and I don't get it - feel free to come and get it. The best thing for the game is to get the call right - no matter where it comes from.

From where I was at, it was a foul. But I was a lot further away from the play than the lead. It was right in front of him and he passed so he didn't think it was a foul.

If we are a crew, I need to trust his view and his judgement in his primary that it wasn't something that needed to be called.

If we are all just looking at the ball, we don't need 3 officials on the game. In my experience, that whole "get it right" philosophy is an excuse for ball-watchers to not take care of their areas, trust their partners and referee off-ball.

I can recall many times when partners of mine have strayed out of their primary and secondary areas and blown a whistle in my primary area. Every one of those times it has been a call that I passed on (or there was no call at all and they were dead wrong).

Maybe your experience is different, but I don't recall ever thinking, "thanks, you saved me" to a partner that is ball watching.

An official needs to referee locally and be aware globally. Being aware means that you know where your partners and the ball are. It doesn't mean that you are reffing in their areas.

Z

I agree. But I think we also need to be careful that the theory of "staying in your area" doesn't turn into being lazy and an excuse to not be aware "globally" (as you so elequently put it ;) ).

And this is exactly why we need to stay in our areas. In your play, initially it sounded like you saw the foul, and your partner didn't. In your later posts, you're not quite so 100% sure you saw the foul. So, I agree you probably shouldn't have blown the whistle in that instance.

Actually, I have experienced both sides of that. I have been blocked out (ok, perhaps out of position?...) on a call and had to have a partner come in and get it, and I have had to come in and get a call when my partner was blocked out. But, truthfully, it doesn't happen often. And, it happens more often like you said where the partner is just flat out wrong. I guess I'm just advocating not saying <b>never</B> call outside your area. Just do it way less often, and be 112% sure. (I did that just to see Chuck's head explode.)

I was working a CC game with a rookie and a 3rd yr vet a few years ago. Rookie was the L, I was the C (my 4th yr), and vet was the T. Player A drives from the T side, into the L primary parallel to the endline. I had 2 other players in my primary away from the basket. On the drive and subsequent shot there was a OBVIOUS foul on the shot at the farther lane line. No call from the primary official (T), no call from the (L). I paused long enough to see that no one had this call, and cracked the whistle. After reporting, a timeout was called. Rookie said "thanks for getting that one." I just reminded them that was one we have got to have. Both partners agreed.

After the game our assignor came in, the first words out of his mouth, "great crew call, we had to call it." Rookie just had one of those rookie moments, and 3yr vet had given up the ball too early. Did I want to call it in front of them? HELL NO! If there is a no call on that one, the entire crew loses credibility. I will trust my partner(s) until they prove that I cannot.

Not all assignors make assignments with the idea that "this official can handle it," they are made so that an official gains experience. This can be an officials first HS game, first playoff game, whatever. We all go through the process of not having been there before. Otherwise we would all start at the highest levels. Sometimes our nerves can cause us to not see everything we think we should and a partner will come in and get one.

I think for the most part we are talking about generalities, not absolutes. Of course the situation you were faced is a little different if you ask me. If you are dealing with all veterans, I know I would handle this situation totally different. We also need to remember there is a difference about a call that is on the fringes of coverage areas and all the way in someone's coverage area. I can accept a "dual" coverage area call over a call that is completely in my area. The Center official has a lot of responsibility outside of their area. A Lead official does not have much responsibility. We should make some distinctions, but as a rule of thumb, calling out of your area can get you in trouble if you did not see the entire play. A travel call from my point of view is not a game saving call.

This is very true. But in many cases the first HS game of a young official is not going to be the cross town rivalry. Likely they will get a game that is a mismatch or game with teams not expecting great things. Not all games are made the same. Even if an official is working their "first" game at that level, they still need to call the game. If I save them, they might not know how to swim on their own.

Peace

I said earlier that I do help out brand new officials who are still green. That is my exception.

At a CC game however, I would expect my partners to be able to hold their own and ref their areas without me babysitting them.

If it was an OBVIOUS foul, one of them has to get it. Otherwise they don't belong in a CC game or even a competitive HS varsity game. If they miss a call and get a little guff from the coach, it will make them work harder the next time. If I make a call in their area, I become an enabler and they don't learn to step up.

In the situation you describe above, my assignor would have asked the T and the L why they didn't make the call. Then he would have asked the C why they were reffing in the T and L's area and he would have told the C to quit being a ball watcher. In the situation you describe, we have all 3 officials reffing the ball. Who is reffing the other 8?

Z

You're an "enabler" if you take one gotta-git-it call from a rookie who's sucking Fox? Wow.

It's called team work, and it makes for a great game. You oughtta try it sometime.

If you would have read this entire thread, you'd see that I said I do help out a greenhorn (I actually posted that twice) with some babysitting.

In any other situation, I trust my partners. Why is that so hard? Part of teamwork is trust. If I'm looking in someone else's area, outside of my primary and secondary coverage areas, I am not doing my job and I'm not trusting them to do theirs.

Z

I see where you said that about the greenhorns. Sorry I missed that. Still, part of teamwork is "helping out" when a partner is confused or blocked out. I can think of a number of completely reasonable situations where that might happen without someone being out of line, depending on how you define primary and secondary areas. I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two people "authorized" to make any call. (I mean in three-whistle)

And if we ever work together, you can trust me to miss at least one that I'd be happy if you got.

Missing 1 is fine, I suppose. It's your problem usually.

But if you miss 1 I want to know about it...in case you miss another so I can be ready to help.

And certainly if you miss the game changing call I want to know about it so we (the crew) can save the game.

This argument about "I aint looking out of my area no way no how" and "trust your partner" and "who's watching Aunt Milly in the 4th row while you're looking in my area" is BS to me. I don't put on my black polyester pleated no belt no cuffs sansabelts and stick a whistle in my mouth only to ignore 2/3 of the game. If I did I would feel obligated to return 2/3 of my game fee. And trust is a 2 way street...if I'm going to trust you to make good calls then you have to trust me when I am forced to poach in your area.

Agreed, but the way I interpret the original post (and also the situation that I added later in the post) is that the third official (who has no responsibilities in that area) makes the call.

If the third official makes the call, we have all three officials watching the same area and that is just not good 3-person officiating. In fact, it's a complete waste and we might as well go back to 2-person in that case.

Z

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

I have no idea what you're saying, or asking.

Try again?

If I am to understand you correctly Juulie, it sounds like you are saying that one call is going to save a game? I have never seen a situation where one call "saves" a game. Now there might be critical calls or important calls, but if a call needs to be made to save a game, I really think the official in that area should be put in trust to do so. If they cannot do so, they need not be there.

Peace

What I"m trying to say is, "I don't understand what Dan is trying to say." Wow, it's bad when I can't say, "huh?" and be understood! I guess I"d better stick to reading only for a while...

What I'm saying is:

1. Be aware of everything that goes on, in & out of your area.

2. If I trust you to call the game correctly then I trust you if you come into my area to pick something up. And I expect you to trust me when I come into your area.

3. If I don't trust you to call your game correctly I'm gonna help when you pass on the really big calls. How do I know I can't trust you? See #1.

Thanks.... for spelling that out more clearly, and for the content. I agree with you 100%. The whole "I'm not looking in your area" thing has never made sense to me. It sounds good as it comes out of the mouth, but in reality it's just plain stupid. It's important to be consistent with you partner, and the only way to do that is to see what partner is doing, what he's doing and what he's not doing, what he's calling and what he's not calling. Also, I think it's a lot easier to call in my area when I'm aware of what's going on in your area. As the ball moves, and players adjust, and set up new plays and so forth, I need to know which match-ups to keep a close eye on and where the various defenders are that might step into the dribbler's path. What you're saying isn't, "I'm responsible for the whole floor". You're saying "I"ll be AWARE of the whole floor, but I"m responsible for my primary and somewhat for my secondary". That makes the most sense.

Rainmaker,
That sounds an awful lot like what I posted 2 pages ago in this thread:

<i> "An official needs to referee locally and be aware globally. Being aware means that you know where your partners and the ball are. It doesn't mean that you are reffing in their areas."</i>

Z

Okay, so.....

I don't carry a whistle, but keep the scorebook in Division III and post here occasionally. Is there anything you can share regarding what you tell table personnel or what you expect from the table personnel during pregame (or the game itself, for that matter)? For what it's worth, I usually work a doubleheader (women's game, then the men's game). I always appreciate input (even if you think it might be basic material that I already "know". Even a quick refresher course would be helpful regarding what you expect from table personnel).

Now that I'm thinking about basketball season, I made an incredibly stupid mistake last year in a D-III NCAA Tournament game that, while it ultimately didn't affect the game (it was corrected by other people at the table. I was the only one keeping a book. The other school didn't have someone keeping a book to save me, and the game, from my stupidity). Our coaches and other school personnel were cool about my error, telling me it didn't affect the outcome and not to worry about it. Regardless, it's been months, and I still ask myself how I could make such a mistake. It had to do with a running score mistake I made, which led to temporarily taking a point off the board. There's no real question to ask about that, I missed something and know I have to do better (as far as I know, I'll still be keeping the book here. No one's told me otherwise.) I'm just checking in to see if anyone has anything they would like to share regarding working with the scorekeeper.

The only thing really anyone can tell you are to listen to whatever the officials at the game want you to do. Unfortunately there really is no one size fits all expectation. Hell all I want is to be informed of any problems. Most of the time the crew will figure that out on our own when something goes crazy. Just remember you are apart of the officiating crew. Other than that, the crew that will work on a particular night might have different expectations based on their experience or their own expectations.

Peace

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!