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Fresh From Camp Tidbits....
I am no expert here....just some things I picked up on....feel free to contribute....
1. Make sure you take your pants just in case. I showed up for my first game at camp and everyone was in pants....not just on my court....EVERYONE. I was in some pretty darn cool under armor shorts.....not good! I didnt fully realize - It's a job interview....dress the part. Actually, it looked to me that about half the guys were wearing NEW pants. Luckily, I tossed a pair of pants in my bag so I was in "uniform" the rest of camp and....had to do a lil laundry. 2. If possible, find out the pet peaves of the camp director. Example, the camp I was at, I learned on day two that the director hated it when guys going from L to T in transition ran up the middle of the court. He also doesnt like it when you bounce the ball on throw ins vs. handing ESPECIALLY with no pressure on the play. You can bet I adjusted those out of my game for the balance of camp. 3. MECHANICS....BY THE BOOK!!!! Ive been to camp....but bottom line, no home made machanics. Only do what is in the book PERIOD. Probably the biggest feedback item I heard all camp to everyone (not just me) was related to mechanics. 4. Attend everything. We had 6 lectutres. There was a sign in sheet at each that was going to be turned in to the director. Even if you can only make half of it due to a game, get in there and sign in. You dont want to be the 2 guys that missed something. I'm sure I'll think of more and please add to this if you have some..... |
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3) No home made mechanics until after you've been hired and also proved yourself. :) Then it's OK. |
Larks, you beat me to it.
Larks,
It was great to finally meet you and see you work. Keep in touch with me offline and I am sure I will see you sometime next year at this camp. I learned a huge lesson by attending this camp. I learned that I was not as good as I thought I was and I was not as bad as I thought I was either. What I mean by that is I realized everyone at the camp could referee. There probably was not a guy there that could not call the game properly. If I was given the shot I could work D1 ball right now. Now some might say that is a bold statement, but that is not what I say, that is what others say about me and the many other officials that were there as well. Just about everyone there not working D1 could probably work a D1 game if they were just given the opportunity. Now that does not mean I could work Texas/Oklahoma State, but I might be able to work Eastern Illinois/Illinois if I worked with the right partners and the right kind of game took place. All we all need is a shot (said by many D1 Evaluators). Here are some points I observed as well. 1. Everyone was in shape--If you want to attend a camp like this, you better be in shape. Everyone looked like they could run like the wind or they could take you outside and whoop your behind with ease (in many cases, both). No pot bellies, most officials had the "NBA Look." Also a lot of the officials that work were tall. 2. Almost perfect mechanics across the board--The only thing that might have separated guys were minimal differences. No one was teaching mechanics about where to stand and where you were supposed to be. Everyone understood the mechanics; the evaluators were there to fine tune the mechanics and help us stand out. 3. Show personality--We were told at the very beginning that we need to show we could smile on the court. You need to show you could laugh and show that you were having fun. Coaches might not like what you call, but if you can show you are a good guy, they might not make a big deal over a minor thing. 4. COMMUNICATION---This is probably the most important point made the entire camp. You need to know how to communicate to your partners, coaches, players (AND YES) and Fans. If you could not communicate to these people, you will not be a successful official period. You have to be able to tell a coach what happen on a play. You have to be able to talk to your partners or give signals that make it clear what you called and what you need to look for in the game. You need show confidence when you make calls to the public (fans) and not cause total confusion when you make a call. You need to know how to get players on your side or get them to understand what you want to accomplish. THIS WAS THE MOST COMMON AND IMPORTANT POINT MADE THE ENTIRE CAMP BY MANY EVALUATORS AND OFFICIALS!!!! 5. There were about 85 officials at this camp. Eighty-three could work D1 if they just got a shot yesterday. There were very minimal factors that separated the top guy from the last guy. Everyone hustled, everyone had great mechanics. This was not a camp where evaluators had to teach things like "This is the Lead official and this is the Trail official." 6. Ball first, contact second--I only say this because I get ripped apart for saying this. There was a play that a current D1 official was working. There was a hard move to the basket and a defender came behind and made a block against the backboard. There was a little contact with the shooter by the defender but no one falls to the ground. The official called a foul. One of the evaluators asked him about this play he said, "Did he get the ball first or contact came first?" The officials said, "He clearly got the ball first, but he put his knee into the guys side and I thought that was a foul." The evaluator said, "That is a play-though. Unless he knocks him into the 10th row and even then, you have to let that go. He made a block, let the rest go." I say this because the evaluator leaves no where near me, has never met me and works a hefty D1 schedule and has been doing so for over 20 years. I have been ripped time and time again, but at the college level, a clean block you rule the rest incidental contact for the most part. There are so many other things I could mention, but these were the most important I could think of. Great experience. I learned a lot. I hope to see more from here next year. Peace |
This might be a dumb question, but who plays in these official's camp games?
I was just curious. Do they run these Ref Camps side by side with camps for HS kids? One side being the Ref Camp the other being the Player's Camp. Or do they bring in teams to play specifically to let the refs practice and be evaluated? |
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Peace |
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Oh yeah....great one Rut (nice to meet you too by the way)...... 4a. Communication on Fouls... Signal the foul Say the color and number of the offender Indicate who the shooter is BEFORE YOU GO TO THE TABLE Believe it or not, one of the clinicians drilled this one several times. We've all heard it before but how many of us consistently do it? Obviously they want this to happen so....when in Rome... |
What camp was this?
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Dale Kelley Camp
At Western Kentucky University.
Peace |
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I was at a local camps this weekend and I had the same play just about. It was a shot block then contact and I passed on the foul. My partner came all the way in my area and called the foul and the coach hit the roof. I couldnt agree more that contact after a shot block is deemed incidental! |
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Peace |
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Peace |
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BTW, IREFU2 and I were at the same camp. |
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I went to a camp 2 years ago here in Virginia in which the camp directors didn't speak too fondly of what was being taught by the folks further down south. |
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Personally, I'm in the camp that says if a defender knocks an airborne shooter down with contact, a foul should be called on the defender- all-ball or no all-ball. A shooter is just way too vulnerable up there imo. I also believe, however, that you can't make an absolute blanket rule to that effect. You might get a play where the shooter goes down, and you really don't think the circumstances warrant a foul at that particular time. Wishy-washy, eh?:) I do know that SEC football officials have been trained differently than most other conferences, and very few other conferences' officials' groups agree at all with the SEC way of doing things. |
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Peace |
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To say a blocker shouldn't be held liable for any contact after a block is analagous to saying a shooter shouldn't be held liable for anycontact after the shot is released...no matter how hard. The NFHS and NCAA have different penalties for this situation but it is called if the conact is enough. |
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Peace |
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camp knowledge
Just got back from the Referee's Choice camp and I'm headed to another camp in the morning.
One thing that really hit home for me is that supervisors expect us as referee's to ALWAYS be professional when dealing with coaches, no matter how much of an a$$ they are being. We cannot lower ourselves into the fray. I'm one of those quick-witted, sharped tongue, sarcastic individuals. Thinking back on my short career, those traits probably haven't served me well (except in Adult Rec Leagues of course). So here are the 4 actions I will start confining myself to when dealing with coaches.
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This has worked its way down to the college level already - officials being told to ignore contact after a good block, and every three point shooter getting hit after the release of the ball, just to name a few (I know there is a difference between NFHS and NCAA in terms of what is considered an airborne shooter, but no one seems to ever call the non-shooting foul when a 3 point shooter releases than definitely gets fouled, even "after the shot" - and this happens all the time). And it is working its way down to the high school level, with officials at camps being told to ignore contact after a good block. This is a slippery slope... |
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As to the high school level, I'm not really aware of anybody teaching officials to ignore contact. I think that in some cases they might be teaching officials to ignore certain types of contact, but certainly not <b>all</b> contact. And as for the NBA, I sureasheck agree with you on that league. I don't have a clue what traveling, palming, or a foul,etc. are anymore. It's become unwatchable imo. |
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We have entire committees that write and approve the rules. I'm not saying I agree with every rule out there, but I use them as they are written, and as the cases say we should interpret them, in officiating my games. Just because an official, an assignor, etc, decides they don't like a rule doesn't mean they have the right to just decide to change the game in favor of their opinion, and rewrite the rules for that game in the way they would like to see them written. I didn't sign up to officiate "me-sketball", or "assignor-sketball" - I signed up to officiate basketball. Basketball, like any game, has rules, and I would think that as officials for a sport, we have an obligation to these rules. I have always said my heirarchy for officiating is "1. Player Safety, 2. Rules, 3. Game flow". If the players play safely for their level, and play within the rules, they will have more game flow than they can handle. If they choose not to stay within the first two areas, they don't get very far into the third. I have to say, in officiating several sports, I believe Basketball varies the most from game to game. In many sports, the players come in with a pretty good idea of what is legal and what is not, and what they can and cannot do. In basketball, the players have to adapt their entire game strategy to what the refs are calling and not calling that day. This happens to a lesser extent in other sports, but I believe is a major hurdle to the progress of this game. Coaches teach players things to break rules that they know are unlikely to be called, and tell the players to stop doing it if they get called for it - Hand Checking is a good example. It is NEVER legal, according to the rules, to touch the dribbler. Many officials allow players to "tag up" (again, defined in the rules as illegal), or even leave a hand on the dribbler as they are running (again, defined in the rules as illegal). Some officials are picky on this one, many are not. Another example would be the girls in girls games who set up with their heels over the lines or neutral zone blocks - many officials won't warn or call the violation. Some will warn. Very few will call this violation, even though it is well defined in the rules. Another example is the T for going out of bounds that existed for a few years. Very few officials called it, so the rules people changed it to a violation. Who are we to say the group who defined the rules was wrong? But we did - most people refused to call this technical foul. I think that official use the terms "judgement" and "game management", among others, as excuses for not applying rules they don't think should be applied as they are written and intended. Good game management is not rewriting the rules to match what you would like to see the game be or become - it is officiating a game fairly, keeping everyone safe, and going home at the end feeling that you gave your best. If this includes making calls that are unpopular, so be it - the game is not written for a popularity contest for the officials. How can you play a game without rules, or with rules that change day to day, game to game, by the person enforcing them? |
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Unfortunately, there is a real world out there. If a director of officials, say from the SEC, tells his officials that he doesn't want contact called after a good block, then unless you're one of the top-rated officials in the country and can get away with it, you had better not be calling fouls on those plays if you want to continue working in the SEC. And I can agree with some of that too, like it or not, just from a "uniformity of calls" standpoint. Coaches and players shoud know what they can and can't get away with it, and what they can teach or not teach. Rules are a guideline usually, David; they aren't always meant to be interpreted literally. Having the acumen to instinctively know when to call or no-call something for the betterment of a particular game is a trait possessed by all top officials imo. I also believe that it doesn't really matter what an individual official calls out there either. If that official is consistent from the beginning to the end of the game, the players and coaches are smart enough to adjust to that official in a hurry. You have a heckuva lot more problems in a game if you don't have crew consistency though- i.e. one official maybe calling a real tight game and the other crew members letting a lot of contact go. |
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Holding
Camp I went to this year, the directors were introducting the concept of never calling a hold. Their philosophy...If it's a hold, it's an intentional foul. A hold is not a basketball play. Therefore, even if you have a common foul that you would normally call a "hold," come up with illegal use of the hands or a push, whichever would cover the play more. Thoughts?
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That might just be the dumbest thing that I've heard of coming out of a camp- any camp. NFHS signal #30 is <b>"HOLDING"</b>. NCAA signal #21 is <b>"HOLDING"</b>. Both rule books recognizes holding as a normal, every-day foul. Those camp director/goobers obviously don't believe those rule books. Either that or they've never read them. Lah me, what will they come up with next?:rolleyes: |
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I have heard that in the last 2 minutes of a closely-contested game, any hold should be a signaled as a hack or a push (because it looks stronger), but I don't buy that either. A hold is a hold is a hold. Z |
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I also think we need to make clear, this was a D1 camp!!! This was not some local HS camp where the clinicians only worked a state final because they hung around long enough. This was with D1 officials as clinicians and league supervisor where his games are on National TV every week. We also must know that D1 coaches know these philosophies and they have no problem with them. If you call this at that level, you will not be there very long and they will find someone that will follow the philosophy. This is not very different than when I worked my very first D1 baseball game, there were things I had to come to up to speed with or I would get run over and soon find myself not working their anymore. I know similar things happen in football because I belong to a football organization where several Big Ten crew chiefs and 3 NFL officials and what they have to do is very different than what we have to do at the HS level. Now where I live also the college influence is heavy and many assignors at the HS level, also assign college assignments and expect similar things from the college level. We are also influenced by the fact that many conferences have players that go to the D1 level or at the very least low level college ball all the time. I think this also needs to be said. The people at this camp mostly were college only officials. Not many guys here worked more than 5-10 games of HS a year and did not see a personal future for working HS ball. I know I found this unusual from where I live, because even the best college officials where I live work a decent share of HS games and even work deep into the playoffs. The only D1 Men's official that works almost no HS games, he helps assign a HS conference and he expects similar philippics to be applied in that conference or you will not get his recommendation to work varsity to the lead assignor, which can make or break your chance in that conference BTW. I agree that this is essentially a class of cultures in the officiating world, but depending on where you live you either go along, or sit out at the varsity and higher levels. Peace |
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And I've seen all kinda fouls called in NCAA D1 games where a clean block was followed by a defender knocking the shooter down or putting him into the basket support. Even seen it in Big 10 games too...... I ain't gonna argue it with you though. Waste of time.....neither one of us will ever convince the other. |
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I'm doing a college pre-season game about 4 years ago.
Had the same play. I'm T, L had this play. Shot blocked, then contact. Late whistle comes. Shooter lands awkwardly and ends up chipping his tooth. L said, "I'm glad I had a foul on that play." |
There has been some very good advice on this thread. I went to the Dale Kelley Camp in Dallas last year, and a camp in VA later that summer. They were very different camps. "Bring Pants," is very good advice. Perhaps even better is to find out from someone if you need pants or not.
The other, very valuable piece of advice that I will echo is "When in Rome. . ." Take the Dale Kelley Camp, for instance. If you are a ref who wants to work in one of the MANY college conferences that Mr. Kelley assigns, you do whatever mechanics he wants you to do, period. If you have a major problem with the way he wants the game called, go find work in another conference. Besides getting hired, another good reason to try and incorporate different philosophies into your game is that it makes you a better official. Some of the things I heard at the Kelley Camp were completely opposite of what I heard in VA. While I was in Dallas, I tried to do what they wanted me to do, when I was in VA, I tried to do what they wanted me to do. Now, I can do either one, if I want. It helped make me a better official by opening my mind to different ideas and philosophies about officiating. This is important because I don't want to dismiss something out of hand just because it is something that I don't currently do. It also teaches you to be aware of what you are doing, and how to change some aspect of your game if you want. One caveat, however, is that don't expect better assignments or more work just because you are doing what your supervisor says. It just isn't that simple; but I can assure you that if you don't do what those people want, you won't be doing anything. |
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It's quite different than the play and the expectations of the officials in rural Wisconsin, where one of the assignors sends out a letter each year reminding officials that most contact should result in fouls being called and that the games are called too loosely for his liking. There my partner and I turn down the advantage/disadvantage meter a bit and everyone (so far) has been happy. You gotta do what the boss wants you to do. Regional differences abound at the high school level. Good officials become aware of these things very quickly and are able to adapt to those expectations. Again, I find nothing noble about doing what we do. It's a job and those that hire set the guidelines if we want to work for them. |
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High Shool in Ohio breaks up it's schools by divisions for playoff purposes based on enrollment. I think in basketball there are 4 divisions. In Cincy, I know to some extent differences can be by league but how about by division (school size)? You work the D1 HS leagues, especially in the city league...you turn em loose and make sure they stay inside the lines. To be honest, those are my favorite to work because you WILL break a sweat. But you go into the country and work some of the smaller schools, it's a different style of play altogether. So I think thats another adjustment to consider. Back to the play...if the shot is gone and A1 gets blown up, it's a foul....why? In High school, how about airborne shooter? Now how about shot gone...then contact on the arm and / or torso but A1 is able to return to the floor and play on.....I got nothing....Is it a foul? By exact wording yes but do we all consistently call the game this way? I doubt it whether you are talking about D4 high school or D1 college. Did the contact disadvantage the shooter? That is what I look for. In both cases....we have a judgement call. At camp last week, one clinician had an interesting take he laid on us that I think applies to these situations.....at some point we all have to develop our own philosophy of what is a foul. Me personally, I have "grown up" an advantage / disadvantage" type guy. I'll be perfect honest, this philosophy has served me very well in boys and small college and I believe hurt me to some extent in girls and womens. Actually to the point where in girls, I now call a much tighter game than I ever would a boys game regardless of the division. Bottom line - Contact after the foul shot is the gray area and part of the gig. Lets just hope the folks we work for agree with our "philosophy" and / or lets hope we can adjust to theirs. Larks |
Rich and Larks are right..... officials have to adjust to the level of play. I call a 4A boys game considerably different from a 1A or B boys game. I call girls games different from boys games. At state tournaments, they often want games called even tighter (depending on who the observers are) so another adjustment is required.
At any level, a clean block followed by significant contact will be a foul in my game. A clean block followed by marginal contact is nothing. Z |
Heading to camp in Florida tomorrow. Nice to read some of the scenarios yall have already been through.
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I just finished a camp last night. During the film break down of our game. The clinician ask pointed out a play in which the hand check signal was given as preliminary and at the table. He asked the crew what we thought about that signal being given. We all seen why it was given, but the feedback was SHOCKING!!!!
How do some of you feel about giving signal #29? Later, I will provide the feedback given. |
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Z |
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The signal itself is just a signal. In fact, I think the NFL uses the same (or very similar) signal for some infraction. Please don't tell me that the clinician doesn't like the signal. That's one of those "get a life" moments, as far as I'm concerned, to be very honest. |
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It sounds like another camp clinician is searching for officiating immortality by trying to inject his very own personal philosophy into the game.
Feel free to nod your head "yes" and then ignore him. At these camps, you have to learn to separate the pearls from the drek. Whatever you do, don't take everything said to you as gospel. Handchecking is just another signal; it's also just a good, descriptive signal of what you actually called. |
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All, the feedback the clinician provided was shocking to me because, I never viewed the signal from the perspective him presented. I viewed it as just another approved signal in the rule book.
Z, the feedback he provided was along the lines of what you was told previously. Chuck, The point, I was attempting to drive home is I learned something new. I received a different perspective on a approved mechanic signal and how some coaches, (not all) would try to use it to drive home a point when, the slightest touch on their player would give them just cause to say it when it was called against them. BNF, What you stated is exactly what the clinician said. " It tends to get coaches harping for hand checks the rest of the game." So, to save yourself the headache. He suggest and it was just a suggestion either use signal #30 or #32 it looks stronger. JR, The clinician, communicated in a manner in which his interpretation of a rule or signal was not the core of the feedback in which he provided. You have to keep in mind anything stated at this point in my infancy (just starting my 3rd year) career of officiating will be SHOCKING!!! P.S. If all else fails, just in case this officiating (thingy) does not work out. I still have my application to Champs. :D |
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That is the exact look I had on my face:D |
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Coaches might miss the quick little hand-push that throws a dribbler/cutter off-balance, or they can also be easily screened when it happens also. And who cares if they do harp for hand-checks? Aren't you still gonna call them (hopefully consistently) the whole game anyway? That's just a dumb comment from that clinician imo. If you call a push on a rebound against them, of course they're gonna lobby for the same call at the other end. Handchecking ain't any different. TrueRookie, listen to the people that you report to- i.e. your assignor or your evaluator. That's all that matters- not some goober at a camp trying to re-invent the wheel. Ideally, you want everybody in your area using the same mechanics. If everybody that you work with is using the "handchecking" signal and you're not, then you're "that guy". And vice-versa. |
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In my opinion, the signals to the table are supposed to be communicative in nature, so I would personally advocate altering the "official" signal somewhat to communicate what actually happened to cause me to blow the whistle, particularly when I get that "what'd he do" look from the coach. I think it saves a lot of hassle just to show everyone what he did than to do the by the book mechanic, particularly if the foul is off-ball. If we have a swim move type play in the post, or an off-ball illegal screen, I find it to be stronger to just show everyone what happened. If it was a knee, show a knee.
Of course I must include the caveat that I'm just sharing a personal philosophy, and that if a supervisor tells me to do everything by the book, you can bet I would do it that way. That's the most important thing, have your own philosophy, but do what the boss tells you if you wanna work for that boss. |
The hand check signal is completely redundant. Every single foul that can be deemed a hand check could also be a hold, push, or illegal use of hands. The signal was only added a few years ago...with no new fouling action being defined...just a new formalized name to what was already a foul that had a signal.
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Watching
Yes its a lot of being in the right place at the right time.
:D Nelson |
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I'm with Engemann, signals are about communicating. If the thing that's most needed in today's game is communicating with coaches, working with coaches, managing coaches, and thereby the game, then why not rethink our approach to signalling? Coaches, players and fans don't know the rules well, and they surely don't think in terms of exactly which rule was violated when a foul was committed. They think much more in terms of "that's a foul" and "that's not a foul." Their distinguishing criteria is not derived directly from the book. So why do we signal as if it is? Would it be more effective if our signals more closely matched the actual act that caused the foul? The handcheck, IMHO, communicates the nature of the foul very well. There are certainly others we could add that would aid in that communication. Didn't the NCAA women add some new signals a few years back (like hit to the head)? |
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