For the WNBA All Star game I was glad to see 2 females. They all 3 did a graet job. When they were announced I did not get their names. Could someone tell me their names? I was most impressed.

Michael Price, Bonita Spence, and Melissa Barlow.

What do you mean by glad? Who else did you expect to be officiating the game? I almost all the time see females doing the games in the first place. I guess I am suprised that you were suprised.

Peace

I agree Linda it was good to see. And, Rut, it is not the norm!

Usually, in high profile games in the WNBA or NCAA, you'll see at least one, possibly two female officials. I've even seen 3 at some NCAA games. I thnk the powers that be want to promote the women's game. That usually includes female officials.

Works for me.

Now how do I get the message to thses officials! As a person who deals with young children I would love to have kids see these females. I especially feel Melissa was on top of each play as they all were.
How are the officials picked for this game?

I do not know what ball you are watching
 

I guess you have not looked at too many NCAA Women's Final Fours or WNBA games? During the Championship in the Final Four for the past 3 to 4 years, all of the officials have been women. Now there have been men doing some of the semi-final games, but the Championship is an all women crew. And even when I look at the regular season, I do not see mostly men on the floor. Not to say that it has never happen, but if I do see a man he is with two women. Now I cannot speak that much for the WNBA during the regular season, but it is not unusual when I do watch to see an all-women crew. Now if it is not the norm, I see many women doing women ball.

And a matter of fact, that has been a huge complaint that I have heard about doing Women's college. Many of the men see more and more women, they would rather not try because they feel that the women are being pushed through. Now I do not know if that is completely justified, but I do not see men doing the "big" games that I see on TV.

[Edited by JRutledge on Jul 22nd, 2001 at 11:22 PM]

That might be difficult.
 

I do not know if there is any good way to contact them. But I do know that if you look at some Referee Magazines, it might be a start. See Referee Magazine list officials for all pro leagues in almost every sport in the back. They usually tell you where the officials are from and gives you the number (NFL, NBA and WNBA all have some number the officials are given) that they are. And even the post season in the NCAA and many bowl games, they give the college ranks too.

Now because of the protection of privacy, it might be hard to get things like mailing addresses or email address of these individuals for the obvious reasons. But knowing their name is a start. But it might be really hard to contact them or find out ways to contact them, unless they give out their own information themselves, or they might write and article on this site.

But to be honest, this is really not as much as an accomplishment or a new thing. Women have been doing all the big games on the women's side ever since I started. I mainly know because I have been paying attention. Before I cannot tell you.

Hope that helps

Peace

Re: I do not know what ball you are watching
 

Rut -- we have season tickets for WNBA here in Portland (Go, Fire!!) and I can tell you that I have only seen one crew of all women. Actually, I didn't see it because I didn't make that game, but my husband told me. Of the games I have watched on TV (about 80% of what's available) I have never seen an all-women crew. I think this still fits the definition of unusual.

It seems that there's usually a "token" male on the floor! :D

Re: Re: I do not know what ball you are watching
 

I think you need to read what I said. I never said that you always have an all-women crew. I am just saying that at the higher women levels, to have a all-women crew doing the Championship or and All-Star game is not very unusual. And my comments were to basically say that what she saw was not a "great" accomplishment. You might not see an all-Black crew all the time either, but it does happen from time to to in College and in the NBA. Basically, it was not a first, that was my point.

You also have to be realistic, women are not officiating in the numbers that men are. Only last year did I work with a female for the first time in a varsity game. And when I see or work a girls game still, I do not see hardly any women doing those games. But it is still not a major thing to see women work a game anymore.

Rut, I have to disagree with you. I have watched hundreds and hundreds of NBA games in the past 25 years. I have never seen an all black crew in a game. And it's very, very seldom that I see an all white crew. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it's very rare to see. I believe that the NBA intentionally integrates the crews. And that also happens on the college and high school levels when possible.

No, you don't see women calling very much at the high school level. But there are quite a few of them calling Women's college ball. I would venture that the percentage is close to 50%.

When you consider that, as you just said, men do dominate officiating, it actually is an accomplishment for a woman to call an WNBA All Star game. This is true even though there ranks are growing. My guess is that the original poster sees very few WNBA games and was, therefore, surprised to see two women working the game.

***** ball, who cares?

Vulgarity....ooooh...what a big man you are!

If you don't care, ignore the post.

TH, I think you guys are taking the comments way out of context. All I am saying is that this is not a record-breaking event. It is not like Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier, or the implementation of Title IX. It does happen from time to time, it might not even be most of the time, but you do see all-women officials crews in the WNBA and all-Black crews in the NBA. I can only speak for the games I see on TV, not the games I have never seen or played around the league. And yes I have seen and all-Black crew in the NBA in both the reg. season and post season. Just like my earlier comments, it does not happen every but it does happen. Almost 1/3 of the NBA officials are Black. So I would think that at some point they would be a possibility that they would be a crew with all people of the same race other than those of the white color.

Now both may not be everyday situations, but they are not first either. That was my point.

And as it relates to HS women officials (at least in my area) if you are good, you will move fast. I know a female official that did college games in her first year. I worked with her in my first girls game of last year and she was telling me how she was doing college ball. She thought I was so good she could not believe I was not doing collge ball. And last year was my 5th season, and she was in her second doing college games. So it does not suprise me or makes since, that if you are a women and you can officiate, they are looking for you to move up fast. But then again, I am surrounded by college officials where I live.

I'm not taking anything out of context. I'm just disagreeing with what you said.

No one is comparing two female officials working a game to Jackie Robinson. But for people who don't watch a lot of WNBA, it's unusual. Is it so bad that a first time poster would mention it? Sheesh! Get off the lady's back. There's no need to make her feel like idiot.

Well, I've never seen it. In fact, all white crews are pretty unusual. Not that it matters to me one way or another, but I believe the NBA purposely integrates crews.

Tell you what, the next time you see an all black crew working an NBA game, drop me an email. I'll tune it. If it's broadcast, I can get it.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 26th, 2001 at 01:27 PM]

I am not a big NBA watcher.
 

I am not a big NBA watcher, but if I do I will tell you.

But about women and officiating, we will just have to agree to disagree. I just want it stated for the record that there are more women officials and seeing women officiate, especially in the WNBA, is in no way unusual.

But then again, I am not watching the WNBA all the time either or NCAA Women's College. The game just does not interest me, sorry.

Peace

Saw a WNBA game last night, New York & Utah. Guess what? Three guys worked the game! ;)

Tony,
I assume you only watched long enough to count the officials. ;)
mick

Hey, I saw part of that game too. But I switched over
to the Utah-Houston summer league game and caught
Andrei Kirilenko. Man, that kid can play! Had a
bandage over his right eye which barely covered a
mean looking shiner. Maybe we'll see more of him come
October...but he'll need to bulk up a bit if he's going
to bring his "finesse" game to the big guys...

BTW (and I'm not making this up so no wise a** remarks, OK)
last night at the Starzzzzzzz game was "bring your dog
night". The stands were full (OK, about 1/4 full) of
women with their dogs. Really. Go ahead, tell 'em Tony.

Not surprised at all.
 

TH, of course that is going to happen. More men officiate than women. It is just a known fact that in the Women's side of basketball, there is a major effort to get women out on the floor, like I think there is an effort to have more African-American officials on the Men's basketball side.

And whether you like it or not, coaches are the ones that are calling for that. They want individuals that reflect the players on the court. It might not mean that every situation or even most situations that can be accomplished, but it means that you will see all-women crews in Women's Basketball and mostly Black or all-Black in certain situations in Men's and Boy's Basketball.

And TH if you lived in the Chicagoland area, you would see the same thing. I am not talking about the Chicago Public League alone either (for those that understand the area). If you were to see some of the suburban teams that have all-Black teams against all-white teams, the coaches (especially the ones that have Black players on their teams) are calling for African-American officials to do these conferences. And I have been hired more than once because I was Black. Now the same thing happens in Girls Basketball. If a female is decent and can put air in the whistle, she will get the opportunity to move up fast.

One of the best games that I had last year was a game between Mundeline and North Chicago (all-Black team, all-Black coaches). My partners and myself were also Black. Now the game was at Mundeline (I think I am spelling that wrong) High School. The assignor is white and did tell me that he need more Black officials because the coaches were calling for it. And I do this coming year have more games with these other two Black officials in these two conferences that this white assignor assigned us to.

It might not be a everyday situation, but it does happen.

Peace

Re: Not surprised at all.
 

Rut, I could care less what coaches want. What's difficult to understand is why they want a certain race or sex on the floor. If it's me, I want the best official on the floor, without regard to sex, race, creed, religion, handicap, or anything else.

Put the person available on the floor.

Re: Re: Not surprised at all.
 

...and give the best qualified person the job; and give the student with the highest credentials the opening; and give the best performing employee the promotion...

Now you are getting into a discussion on the merits of the theory of affirmative action. I am not going to debate it or even state a position, I'm just saying that factors such as that sometimes enter into a coach's perception of who they want on the court. It's unfortunate that we've arrived at a place in our society where a person might perceive that an official automatically would be biased due to their race without any evidence of that particular individual being that way. And...it goes both ways. Although I have lived in Portland for the past 30 years, I grew up in the Chicago area and my high school was a real melting pot, and so were our sports teams. At the time, there was no doubt in my mind there were some prejudices on the part of some officials as to race. However, I don't think an official will be around very long if he or she exhibits those tendencies, thank goodness.

Eventually, everyone will accept the conclusions of the genome project and they will realize we're all more alike than some of us think. Maybe then, we will stop being this label or that label and start being just human beings.

Re: Re: Not surprised at all.
 

That might be fine and dandy, but the coaches are the ones that complain to the assignors. So whether you like it or not, coaches always have a say to some extent. Maybe they will not get exactly what they want, but they sure do talk to the assignors and have some influence. And if the assignors want to have some credibility, they have to take heed to some suggestions. And if Black teams are thinking they are getting screwed by white officials, you take that argument away when you hire more Black officials for their games. And believe me, in my state there are coaches white and Black of all-Black teams that believe this is the case.

You might talk about putting the best official on the court, but this is no different than appearance of an official. A fat guy might be the best official around, but he or she will be judged on their size no matter what. So what do assignors do, hire officials that have a slimmer look. Now who do you think complains about fat officials the most? Well, it is not the assignors.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Jul 28th, 2001 at 01:37 AM]

Why do you keep using that term, Jeff? I've already told you, I could care less what the coaches want. It doesn't matter to me. I haven't said that I like it or dislike it. If that's the systems in Illnois, then that's great.

Coaches there must be different than they are In NC. Here, coaches want the best officials, without regard to race, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or anything else. No affirmative action, no quotas, just send the best officials, whoever they are.

My last post on this subject. It was a joy. :)

Sorry TH, it is just the truth.
 

I use the term because it is true. Things happen in life that you and I have little control of. And merit is a good ideal and good principle, but I do not know too many places that uses a "true" merit system. The best qualified is always a value judgement and depending on who you are, that will be different. I know several companies that hire according to race and ethnicity, because of where the stores or business are located.

Now this discussion was not meant for an Affirmative Action discussion. Actually Affirmative Action is not at all what I am talking about or suggesting what is be used. This is just a credibility issue and pointing out that people of color and women on a basketball court is not very ususual. And I cannot speak for all areas, but where I live there are many female officials doing games. Now you will not see all-female crews, but it is not because they do not have the change. Just like the WNBA, women do not support women's sports like they do with men's sports. Men grow up loving sports, women do not unless they played them or not. And even if they did, they still might only like one or two sports. And because of that level of interest in sports from women, it shows by who tries to officiate.

Now it is way more complicated than that, but it explains some things.