I think I've said this about three times. :)

I can see it now!

Halftime:
Coach: "Ref, I going to want a TO at the first dead ball with under one minute left in the game."
Dan_Ref: "You got it, you stupid ****er!"

:D

Yep, I guess that works in NYC but not in NC. :rolleyes:

Well, if at the half he asks for a TO at the first dead ball with under 1 minute left he is a stupid ****er.

Even in NC I suppose.

NCAA rule 5-9-5 - "The game clock ...shall be stopped when an official recognizes a request by the head coach or a player for a time out <b>AFTER</b> a goal until the subsequent throw-in begins".

Rule 5-1-5 iterates that a "goal" includes a made free throw.

Kinda explicit imo.....sureasheck doesn't say anything about recognizing a request made <b>before</b> a goal is made.

I used to think that was "common sense", too. Then one night the coach told me he wanted the TO on the make. I nodded. The FT went in. I looked at him. He looked at me. I looked at him really hard. He looked at me.

The ball was inbounded, he gave me a "Where is my TO?" look, and I gave him a "You didn't ask" shrug.

Now, when the coach asks for a TO on the make, I say, "I'll stay right here. Just remind me."

The ball becomes monetarily dead after it checks the nets before the throw-in. Not while it is in the nets.

OK - that is just absurd. Coaches do not ask for that. I defy you or anyone else to give me an example that is even close. What they do often request is a time-out after a made free throw. Why? Because it fits the game.

Of course not and no one is suggesting that.

Why do we come up with absurd comments and situations that are completely different than the original situation? We have a coach requesting a time-out on a made free-throw. If the free-throw goes in, give him the darn time-out -- it is that simple.

You are not talking strategy with him (i.e. the 10-point run situation) and you are not being an assistant coach (i.e. if the free throw is missed and there are several shots, etc.). You are simply responding to a very simple and straight-forward request.

There is a place for common sense in basketball officiating. You don't call 3-seconds on the guy that just has one heel barely touching the free-throw lane line. You don't start a game with technicals because the starters weren't marked with 9:45 left on the clock before the game. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Don't bury your nose so far in the rule book that you can't see the basketball game that you are supposed to be officiating.

It is not what you say, it is how you say it.
 

I agree that would be absurd. I would never do that either. I do know that I will just ask a coach to "ask when the shot goes" and put the responsibility on them. I have never, ever had a single problem by asking that. So either way it goes, no one is going to completely agree on this. My telling them to ask at the appropriate time is not a big deal as many of you have made it out to be. In most cases the conversation is a one on one conversation and no one hears the conversation in the first place. I hate to say this, but if you have a certain presence about yourself, you will be amazed what coaches and players will go along with.

Peace

Strictly speaking, who cares? ;)

I've been hesitating to add my two cents on this topic, after reading so many IMO, and wise remarks, I felt appropriate to throw mine in. I think this is a good topic just based on feedback, We all seem to have different ways on what works for us, I also have read many interprtation on what the rules states, I guess everyone could and would treated it different. It all basically comes down to what works best for each individual irregardless what is right and what is wrong. Just know if you don't follow the rule, that you are willing to take the heat etc...I am thankful that I treated the similar situation a different number of ways and lucky enough I haven't got bitten in the A$$. Although you'll never be wrong if you follow the rule..I was actually at a game a couple of years ago, close score, The coach asked for TO after the make the Ref looked right at him and didn't nod, wink, wave or even say TO, the official continued play and the coach ripped a new one. Just the way the ball bounces. The coach did eventualy call a time out after the second FT. But he was a split second from getting a T.

I guess it's the slippery slope theory - if you're already allowing something that's a little outside the way the rules are written, how far before you draw the line? My example was meant to be absurd; I certainly have never had that happen. But if you allow a coach to request the TO in advance, and perhaps even while his team isn't even in control of the ball, where do you draw that line where this situation is ok, but that situation isn't?

But you are, aren't you? <B>If</B> the FT is made, call the TO, but <B>if it's missed</B>, don't do anything. The coach has given you the responsibility of calling it, depending on what happens in the near future.

I really don't think we're too far apart on this issue. I agree it's good common sense to be aware of situations where a TO might be requested. I like the coach telling me he's going to want that TO; it reminds me to keep an eye on them so I don't miss the request in what's usually the hotly-contested last few minutes of a game. And like I said, 99% of the time just automatically granting the TO will not be a problem. It's just that I want to avoid that 1 time where all heck breaks loose because the coach changes his mind, I blow the whistle anyway and stop a fast break, etc. I <B>have</B> seen that happen, and that's not an absurd situation. So all I ask for is that confirmation that the coach still wants it during that period of time when they can legally request it. A nod, wink, signal, whatever. It's one less possibility of getting in trouble.

Where does it say that? The rule says we grant it at that time - not that they have to request it at that time...if someone shoots, and coach says "Time-out if it goes" while the ball is in the air, I'm giving them the time-out after it goes thru...that's per the rule - I granted it at the correct time.

request for TO after made FT
 

If the coach is an habitual a-hole I tell him he/she needs to remind me at the appropriate time. If the coach is the decent sort then I'll look to him/her with a ready whistle after the FT and I always get some sort of gesture that comfirms the TO call.

I have never had a problem with either scenario.


As for absurd scenarios, there is a local GV coach who always tells us in the pre-game that he will use his 30-second T-O's first and his team is so bad he's usually used them up by the end of the 1st quarter.

Did you read the NCAA rule that I cited to Dan? Pretty explicit, isn't it? Can you point me to language anywhere that also talks about granting a TO request made <b>before</b> a goal?

I read the rule Dan posted, read the rule you posted, and actually read the rule out of the book just in case one of you two was lying to me again!!:)

All of the rules refer to "granting" the time-out at the appropriate time or "recognizing the request" at the appropriate time...none of them say that the coach must request it at a specific time.

Dan may lie but Chief ThunderButt never speaks with forked tongue....