Tomegun
 

You have some great post on here and know alot of basketball. What level do you currently work, high school or college? What part of the country are you located in, someone said you are from Vegas, how is the ball where you are now compared to Vegas?

I work high school and college; one pays more, but I love basketball!

Las Vegas is my adopted home, but I currently live in the Washington DC metro area (Maryland). Basketball in Vegas - on the West Coast IMO - is watered down compared to the East Coast. An example would be the Easter Classic. Las Vegas put a lot of teams in the tournament, but only one of them (that I saw in the 17-under division) could compete with teams from out of town. Now, take that one competitive "all-star" team from Vegas and they wouldn't win very many high school leagues in this area.

Another example would be the email I just got this morning. An AAU team from here, the DC Assault, just beat a team with the #1 and #2 players in the country (OJ Mayo and Bill Walker) on it. The leading scorer was a kid that plays on DeMatha and is going to Georgetown; he didn't get to the game until 6 minutes left in the first half and finished with 30 points.

A final example; a lot of people know about Oak Hill's legendary basketball program. All 5 starters from this past season's 40-1 squad are from the Washington DC area.

Hey, you are from Ohio; where exactly? I'm originally from Richmond, Indiana which is right on the boarder.

I couldn't agree more with you. Now if we could only get some of the people out here who think that they are so big time to understand this...

You aren't the Tom Raper of Tom Raper's RVs are you? :);)

I wish! Everybody who has driven on I-70 knows Tom Raper.

I live right on the Illinois/Indiana border, basically an hour from Terre Haute. So I see a lot of the Tom Raper ads on the local TV stations.

I would have to change my name.

To Mary...?

Vegas
 

I am from the Toledo area but was on the west coast for some time and know some refs from Cali. and Vegas. What is the deal with the Vegas officials, I was told very, very few refs even make it do Division 1 out of Vegas and that is hard to imagine with I think around 2 million people living out there. I heard that there are maybe 2 or 3 D1 refs from that area and I was wondering why so few. Maybe you can give some insight to that since you are from that area. I know that UNLV is in that area and they are right next to California and with all the basketball that goes through there the refs must have alot of exposure. I was reading in an article that Vegas is top 3 in the country that puts on high level tournaments and has NBA summer league is out there. What is the deal with the limited number of refs working D1 from Vegas?

While tomegun would know better than I, especially for the southern part of the state, but it is my opinion that the lack of colleges in the immediate area is the main reason. There are only two D1 schools in the entire state (Nevada in Reno and UNLV in Vegas) and they are about 450 miles apart. There is not a single D2 or D3 school. Additionally, I don't believe that there is a JC which fields a team in Vegas, I know that there is not one in Reno. There does seem to be a community college that plays though. The closest up here are some CA JCs that are about 80 miles away and that league does NOT pay travel for the officials. So with the gas prices, you end up working the game for free or actually losing money.

The rural geographic layout of the population in this state creates an isolation which makes travel a major roadblock for officials. There simply are not the necessary schools around to provide the training ground for moving up the ranks to a D1 spot. The Vegas guys and gals have to break in over in southern Cal.

There certainly are quality officials here, as there are currently about 4 Vegas based refs in the PAC10, but the difficulties that are encountered in making it to the college level are significant. For example, many D2 assignors from the Sacramento area are uneasy about hiring Reno area refs and assigning them to games because these people must travel over the Sierra mountain range in the middle of the winter in order to work those games. This is an area which is noted for big snow storms and they just aren't comfortable with all the missed assignments and delays that the travel conditions cause. Afterall Reno/Tahoe hosted the 1960 Winter Olympics and we have all heard of the Donner party!

Compare that situation to the DC area which has multiple schools in and a big population in a rather compact geographical area, decent winter weather, and a wealth of small and mid-major conferences.

Anyway, that is my theory.

Nevada's theory is pretty accurate. There are 5 D1 men's officials and 3 D1 women's officials in Vegas.

Is Riel Banaria A D1 Ref--he Is From Vegas--i Saw Him Officiates
In Global Hoops Last Year,he's A Good Referee.

Yes, Riel is in the PAC-10. He is one of my good friends.

thanks TOM for the info---i've been there in vegas attended the IPABOA
camp and officiated in the tourney--hoping to meet you soon!!

---I'm a filipino ref like Riel.

When I was in Vegas a couple weeks ago Riel said he was putting a team in the tournament. He also has a league in Vegas too. I know a lot of the local guys in that league.

I Don't Know Him Personally--but I'm Trying To See Him When I
Go Back To Vegas This Summer,thanks For Your Time Tom.

I'll know I'm a Big Dawg when I become the subject line of a post!!! :D

Or when people start confusing me with other officials during my television games :p

Yeah, whatever. :rolleyes:

I read the post on lack of colleges in the Vegas area and it may be hurting them in proceeding to the D1 level. But I have a few friends in the Vegas area and I was told that they have around 5 or 6 football refs working the Mountain West and the same goes for baseball but I think no one in basketball works the Mtn. West, I have heard a few men work the Pac 10. I have been to other parts of the country and there are a lack of colleges and they have guys and gals working their D1 school in the area and schools close to the area. Vegas is the hotbed for high level high school basketball and they have numerous college tournaments including D1 tournaments that go through Vegas during the season. I know that California has a ton of colleges that are pretty close to Vegas that should provide opportunities to their officials. I know back east there are so many more colleges and there are great mentor programs that go on in the local associations for officials trying to get into college.

Tomegun, how is the mentoring program in Vegas? If there is a strong base of D1 or college officials mentoring those working there way up it helps so much. I know there are a few NBA officials that now reside in Vegas and maybe that can help them through mentoring and showing them the right camps and connections that they need to have.

When is comes to mentoring, Vegas isn't different than other places. In order for mentoring to be effective, someone has to want to be mentored. There are officials in Vegas who don't listen when someone tries to help them. I was scrambling to get officials at Easter and I kept asking the question, "Who is an up and coming official I can get to work with us that wasn't here when I left?" The answer, from more than one person, was nobody.
Plus, Vegas is just a strange town in some aspects. Some in the basketball community shy away from Vegas because of the whole gambling thing. Many officials work in the gaming industry and some supervisors don't want to deal with that.
The "hotbed" you mention is tournaments that are often officiated by officials working camps like the SEC and NBA.

There is one men's official from Vegas who is in the Mountain West. One official who is in the Big Sky. One official who is in the Big West and West Coast (he moved to Vegas or else he wouldn't be in). Four Pac-10 officials live in Vegas. These aren't all different guys, just a count of how the conferences are represented in Vegas.

Wow! That surprises me...and I am privileged enough to have called with one of them last summer in Chicago...now I feel special :)

Tomegun, Thanks for the reply. I spent time in Cali. and got to know some of the jc refs out there and there were a few that were traveling between Vegas and So. Cal trying to catch a break. The Vegas guys that work JC over in Cali have to drive sometimes 4-5 hours for a game which is tough. There was a ref a few years back that was going as far as San Louis Obispo from Vegas doing JC games which was like a 7 hour drive from Vegas, and after talking to a few that were making the trips out there they said that was their only way to do college games while trying to be seen.

But like I said If you have a strong mentoring program for younger officials and a few D1 guys that will stick their neck out and get some looks from their D1 supervisors for the officials they are mentoring, things will progress faster for those officials. I know Vegas has an NFL Super Bowl official that I was reading about recently that has broken down the stigma of Vegas and the casinos. That had to be huge for the Vegas guys for one of their own to make it to the Super Bowl as an official so it shows that if you are good the gambling and casino issue should not matter. There is an NFL official on the east coast that said the Vegas NFL official has done more for Vegas officials, especially getting rid of the Vegas stigma and helping those from that area get looks from the D1 level. Thats why I feel that an official that has made it D1 or pro and still is involved with their local association and up and coming officials, they can not only mentor but get their officials great looks from the supervisors. I assume thats why Vegas has so many guys working D1 football because of his contacts for those officials.

I don't know many D1 football officials from Las Vegas, but I do know the NFL official you are talking about. His name is Mark Perlman and he is a good guy. He also does HS basketball; that is how I know him. He has a pretty good story too. He had to sit out for a while due to illness and worked his way back through NFL Europe.

The official that works the NFL and is from down in Vegas is Mark Perlman. There is a great story behind him, he has been an official with SNOA for about 25 years, and worked his way up through high school, D1, NFL Europe, and finally the NFL. He just completed his first NFL season when he ran into some health problems and had to take a year off to take care of those concerns and had to work his way back through NFL Europe and then back to the NFL and was hired to work on Mike Carey's crew the past few seasons. He works the linejudge postion in the NFL and had the chance to work this past seasons Super Bowl in Detroit. He also has been one of Vegas's big supporters in getting good looks for the local officials and has mentored pretty much every D1 football official that Vegas has.

I was reading the prior post on mentoring officials in Vegas and between Mark Perlman and Mark Ratner, comissioner of officials and outgoing boxing commisioner for the state of Nevada, the football officials have gotten good recomendations and looks from the Supervisors. I think basketball has struggled in that department because the officials have not really had a great mentoring program and D1 officials that could show the dedicated up and coming officials the ropes and get recomendations for those officials to the college supervisors. I think if the basketball officials had some D1 officials from the area really take them under their wing and not only teach but let the supervisors in the college conferences know Vegas has some good talented officials looking to move up and get hired it would help those officials out.

Look at Phoenix, with a population of around 3 million people there, they have so many officials working D1, NBA, WNBA, and small college ball and from talking to a few refs that live down there, the officials that have made it that far really give back and help out the other officials from that area. They put on camps, evaluate at high school games, really give back to those refs that are trying to get to the next level and that is what it takes if you want a successful area of officials. Like I said, football in Vegas has the system in place where 1 to 2 guys are geting hired every year on the D1 side in football and only 2 officials have been hired on the D1 side in mens basketball the past 15 years. It all goes back to contacts and the mentoring program that was talked about by a few prior posters on this subject.

Iknownevada seems to know the Vegas situation, but he/she is putting the burden on the D1 officials. Like I said previously, I asked many of the guys I know who I could get to work during the Easter tournament and they didn't tell me about any official I didn't know about; I left in August 2003 and things haven't changed since the 02-03 season! 3 of the guys I asked are D1 officials (there are only 5 in town). That is basically saying they don't have anyone they are mentoring.
Here are how the conferences work out:
Pac-10: will hire from Vegas. While I was in town, one of my friends asked if an official had given me his information and I told him no. He had apparently told the official to give me his information so he could get him an invite to the Pac-10. I guess he didn't want to go that bad.
Big Sky: will hire from Vegas but there is only on official from Vegas in the conference. Maybe two, but the second one is a guy who moved to town around 2003 and doesn't really have local ties.
Mountain West and WAC: does not hire "home grown" officials, meaning an officials hired by these conferences will already be working in another D1 conference.
Big West and West Coast: will not hire someone who doesn't live in California.
Juco: some officials do work in California. The other conference, with a school in Utah, might not be an option anymore. The school in St. George (Utah) is going D2 or D3.

The NBA official(s) (I only know of one) who live in Vegas did not get into the NBA while living there. Once you are in, you can live anywhere. For an NBA official, living in Vegas might mean you can't really go everywhere (casinos) in the city. If they can go to casinos, I'm sure they have to be careful.

Perhaps you were intending to mean those near Vegas have to live on the California side of the border to be considered. If not, then your statement is not true. I know more than one Oregon official who has worked and still does work in at least one of these conferences...and I believe both.

Good catch! Let me change that one. As far as I know, the supervisors from those two conferences will not hire someone from Vegas. The one official, who lives in Vegas, and is in those conferences moved to Vegas from Oakland after he was in.

Like I said, football has a system in place that most of the up and coming officials have, the officials that have talent and want to move up go to camp together during the summer. Some of the clinicians are high profile Vegas football officials such as Mark Ratner and Mark Perlman (NFL) and those officials that go to camp are talked about to the supervisors by those two mentioned officials. They get a really good look from those who are hiring at the small college level. Once any of those get hired for the JC or D3-D2 level they are mentored and brought along by the D1 refs and the NFL official. If they have some really good seasons and have openings at the D1 level they usually get a good look at being hired. That is why there are 1-2 football officials being hired at the D1 level almost every year now, the system is in place for up and coming talented officials to get hired.

Basketball is a complete different situation. There is no system in place. If you want to move up as an official you are on your own which is why there has only been two new hires out of Vegas at the mens D1 level in about the last 12 years. Vegas has some talented officials that could work college ball and possibly D1 but the system that I talked about is lacking. The serious looking to move up go to camp every summer and I know there are a few that still travel to California and Utah to work games. If you are from Vegas it is harder to move up because of the lack of colleges, but with no system in place from the higher levels they will continue to struggle to move up. Being in Vegas is so much harder to move up than most parts of the country because of the casino stigma but if there was a really strong system in place Vegas would have some more D1 officials being hired.

I think that different parts of the country have different mentoring programs rather it be in the east coast or the west coast. Like Tomegun said earlier the officials that are coming up have to want to be mentored and taught the right way. Some officials feel like they have all the answers but there are alot who really want to progress and move up but don't exactly know the right process to do it and thats where the officials that are in the nba, nfl, D1 or any high level conference have to lend some advice to those officials. Simple advice can be on what camp to attend, what the supervisors are looking for, and the steps that those officials took to get to where they are.