This is a situation from a game I did on the weekend:

Team A is a senior men's team and Team B is a provincial elite team (18/19 yr olds). Under 2 mins left in the game and Team B is up 7pts. Team A can still possibly win, but it is unlikely and frustration is growing. A1 calmy decides to start blaming the inevitable loss on the referees. A6 (on the bench) tries to convince him to shut up. A1 approaches A6 and they give each other real good shoves to the chest with some very loud profanities (I thought the fists were coming next, but teammates intervened...it was quite intense!).

Here is the discussion...what do you do and what rules are you applying (NCAA men/women, NFHS, FIBA) as you make your decisions?

I let them beat on each other as long as it doesn't spill onto the court. ;)

This is a tough call. Since it was summer league I would venture to say let them take care of themselves, but there are larger issues. If this was regular season I would be tempted to toss both of them. This may seem harsh, but if and when that tape wanders to state headquarters, they are going to be asking a lot of questions (of you) as to why they weren't.

But I have to say too, that I think the area you live in will have a huge bearing on what you call.

I agree, I would toss them both...

T on A1 NF 10-3-8, T on A6 10-4-1 and an indirect for the head coach for A6. After this is reported to the table
have the off official let the coach know he is seatbelted and have him remind the coach that this will not be tolerated and that he needs to take care of this immediately.

"T" both of them for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Nail them both
 

My understanding of how to handle this is based on FIBA rules, and my experience of a similar situation several years ago (but with a player and a coach).

1. Toss them both

2. Site them both to appear to the judiciary for unsportsmanlike conduct, striking (or kicking or whatever) and for bringing the game into disrepute.

This sort of behaviour is not something we want in basketball. Tell them to get in a ring and beet the bejesus out of each other there.

Behaviour?

Stoopid americans
 

Oh look, move it to the centre of the page, imagine that the clour is blue and spell it any damn way you want


:)

(Sorry for the outburst)

Re: Stoopid americans
 

Ooooh! Baby bear needs a nap! :D

Re: Stoopid americans
 

Oz Ref,
Would that be stupid, or stoopid, or stooped?
I think stooped works for me. I'm old.
I enjoy your clourful language. ;)
mick

I know in Canada you add a "u" to some words, but I didn't know you also omitted an "o" (clourful).

Bob

THAT'S IT!
 

OK It's war!

Firstly, I am NOT Canadian, I am from Sydney, Australia (the BEST city, in the best country in the world!) IMHO.

Secondly, I speak ENGLISH...not AMERICAN. Just because the average American is incapable of spelling their own name, let alone anything more complex, doesn't mean that the rest of the English speaking world should have to change our language. (As an aside, a recent study comparing education of "average" 15 year old Americans versus Australians found that the Australian students could name more of the 50 states of America, than the Americans could!).

Thirdly, please note that the above is heavily laced with humour, and is not meant to offend anyone (even if you are American)

Regards from Down Under

Re: THAT'S IT!
 

Trust me, that scares me too. What was worse in the last election one of the new stations took pictures of all the prez and vice prez candidates on the street to ask people identify them. Now I am sure there was a bit of editing, but they had like 50 peple who had no idea who they were. And these people vote?

If you want dumb american stories you should work in a call center. In college I worked in a credit card call center and here are a few of my favs, we could call them Bizarro Davisms:

How do I know if I have a gold card?

What colour is a gold Card

Louisville. Pronounced "Louie-ville", but often pronounced "Louis-vile"

And the king of them all...What is this Interest Charge?

Re: THAT'S IT!
 

As an aside to your aside, I wonder what the number
of patents filed and/or granted is in the US vs
Australia, per capita. Or graduate degrees. Anyway,
as the proud father of 2 stoopid 'Murican HS students,
I'm just wondering.

Regards from up here (oops, that's Mick's line! :) )

Brian,

Speaking as a native Louisvillian, you only pronounce Louisville as "Louie-ville" if you are not from "Lou-a-vul".

I have heard that, though I have only driven through your lovely town, and have not spent any time there with the natives.

I do remember a funny billboard that had like 5 different pronunciations on it, but I can't remember all of them.

Re: THAT'S IT!
 

That is because they want to be Americans :D Also adding the "u" is old-English as well.

That's only done U.P. in Michigan! :D

Re: THAT'S IT!
 

Hey, isn't Austraila just a prison camp that is part of Great Britain? :-)

Re: Re: THAT'S IT!
 

Oooooooooh! :o

Re: Re: THAT'S IT!
 

Yeah, and our country was formed with just one small penal colony, while the rest of our forefathers were merely rejects, or unemployed and hungry.
mick

<hr color = red>
Oh look, move it to the centre of the page, imagine that the <u>clour</u> is blue and spell it any damn way you want

(Sorry for the outburst)
__________________
Oz Referee

Tony,
I merely thought Oz Ref had a new word.
Worked for me. I can live with <u>clourful</u>. ;)
mick

<b>clour-ful</b> <i>adj</i> \'claur-ful\ full of clour

Now I know why I am always confused!

Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out. :)

Polish furniture?

We could polish of the Polish Sausage.

I'm not touching that one! No pun intended! :D

Re: THAT'S IT!
 

Whoa Whoa Whoa...

I *AM* CANADIAN.

http://www.adcritic.com/content/mols...dian-i-am.html

..Mike

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Jul 15th, 2001 at 05:52 AM]

Sorry. I just bought a couple of fresh pounds of suasage at ye old butcher. I know it was bad, but it was a lay up waiting to happen.

Speaking of Stoopid...and intrasquad fights
 

I was actually called Stoopid..here's why: Team A commits offensive foul --not player control--bonus situation so we go to the other end to shoot the bonus. As I pass the scorers table they notify me that that's 5 fouls on 32. I turn to the coach tell her to get a sub, and as I turn to my partner to tell him, he is zapping 32 for fighting with her own team mate. He goes to the coach and as he is talking to her another player mouths to him (from behind his back) F--- you. So I T her and throw her out. So after after Team B shoots a bunch of free throws, we go to the other end and I call traveling on #10, she looks at me very nasty and like she's going to say something so I T her, then she throws up her arms and says "what did I do now" So I t her again and said, you don't have to worry about it you're done. So she goes off crying and the coach has to drag her into the locker room. We get the game rolling and a couple minutes later #10 comes back out and sits on the bench. I call time and tell her that she is to stay in the locker room or out of the gym. She is still crying fo some reason and just says "Why do I have to" I told her "Well, because that's the rule" Her coach, who is standing behind the bench of folding chairs, grabs her around the waist and pulls her through the chairs and off to the locker room. As she is being drug away, #10 looks at me and gets the last word in "You are SO STOOpid, in her "Latina" accent. Most of these girls had attitudes and it seemed as if they had no clue on ONE SINGLE RULE, and this was the last game of the season. The coach had no clue either. Why don't they make the coaches take the test too?

Re: Speaking of Stoopid...and intrasquad fights
 

Why did you give her a T for looking like she was going to say something...isn't that just flaming the fire?

Actually why did you boot her from the gym; is that a local summer rule? The book very specifically says they are to sit on the bench and not re-enter.

You know the whole liability thang if they hurt themselves after you send them packing.

PS- Why do you find it necessary to explain her accent or heritage? If a player does something to deserve being wacked,it should not matter how they say it. These comments no matter how innocent will get you in lots o' trouble

I gotta tell you that your behavior was just as bad as the players'. You T'd her because she looked like she was going to say something? Then you gave her the second T when she asked what she did to get the first one? And then you popped off to her? With all due respect Stripes, those are some pretty poor reasons to give technical fouls and the smart remark is not a very good way to conduct yourself. The girls may have had an attitude but you're the one who's gonna come out looking bad for making calls like that. Sorry but that's the way I see it.

BTW, Brian's right. Unless you have some local rule that requires disqualified players to leave the gym, you're asking for a lawsuit by sending a minor out of the building. Perhaps you're calling under different rules but that's certainly not the NF rule.

I hope you'll learn something from the experience. Good luck to you!

I agree. I think a cooler head and better communication could have avoided this whole "ugly" scenario.

Difficult to explain
 

I guess I didn't explain that right,, it was the type of game you just kinda had to be there. By the way it was back in the regular season, not summer. These girls had, honestly no clue of any rule, by the way they acted. I kid you not, EVERY call the were reacting sarcastically to, to a point that it was extremely unsportsmanlike. and I am nothing close to sensitive enough to react to a "dirty look" It was just out of hand. we were calling a good game..the athletic director even told us that we did the best job he's seen all season in keeping his team under control. The reaction of the girl after the first T was not a little mouse peep, it was a show to the whole crowd with a loud moan. I did not T the girl for calling me "stoopid", she said that as she was leaving. And the only reason I mentioned race was because she pronounced it the way you guys were spelling it. I am nowhere close to predjudice, I just thought it was funny when your spelling of the word brought back that little memory. The reason I was sending the disqualified players to the locker room was because it would have made it worse for them to sit on the bench. They didn't want to stay anyway. The AD said that when the varsity players get disqualified they go sit in the stands with their friends. The biggest issue here was that these girls were not about to listen to us as human beings or even try to understand why we were calling the game the way we were. They may have been unfortunate in the past to get less assertive officials... who were willing to travel to the outskirts of town (the farthest west school in our area, by far). A lot of the guys I know will not go out there simply because it is too far and the level of play is uuuhhh well not quite that good. Maybe I should have been a little more patient and tried to explain to these girls the rules, but that would have taken forever. They simply did not understand the simplest rules. Like I said before -- the girl was trying to argue with me about a FIVE STEP travel!!!. I still cannot believe it myself that they could play a whole season and not know the rules. That is why I think coaches should take the test too.

[Edited by Stripes130 on Jul 17th, 2001 at 11:52 PM]

I had a camp director tell me once the real reason ejected players sat on the bench was so when they mouthed off again, the coach also got the indirect. Hee hee.