$15 lighter
 

I had a career first last night. I play after the season in a pretty decent Y league. They ask me to officiate every year, but I decline since I'm playing and that just doesn't look good. The guys they do get....well I appreciate them being out there, but they are rec referees. There is a severe lack of hustle that kind of bugs me, but I don't say anything. So last night, we're undefeated, playing another strong team with only 1 loss. In a tight first half, we get the ball after a held ball. We come down the floor with the other team complaining the whole way that it should be theirs. One of our players hits a 3, immediately followed by the whistle. The less experienced of the two officials (an older guy that works only JH and doesn't try to move up to my knowledge) waves off the 3 and goes to the bench to make sure it should have been our ball. It was, but the basket is still waved off. I just kept my mouth shut and internally rolled my eyes. So early in the second half, I get prettyk good defensive position at about the free throw line and take some contact. I get called for a block from the opposite free throw line (that's as far as the guy made it). I say to myself, "You gotta be kidding me." The Lead behind me, as I was getting up asks if I said something. In a purely conversational tone I said, "Yes." and recieved my first ever career T. I wish I had a tape of the game because I'm sure the look on my face was priceless. The rest of the gym knows I work a pretty decent HS varsity schedule and people are falling off the benches laughing at me. So, now I have a $15 fine for a T (good rule by the way). I guess it was probably a good learning experience to be on the other side of a quick T. I'm sure I have thrown a few in the past that were a little suspect. The moral of the story is don't be honest I guess. Anyway, we lost by 5 or so (the T and waved off 3 didn't help, but neither did our turnovers and missed shots). At least I can laugh about it now.

My policy is the opposite. If I ask you if you said something and you say yes, we have a little chat. If you lie to me or give me the "I wasn't talking to you", we have a little break while the other team gets two shots.

(Yes I know this could be construed as baiting, however in some games you need one)

Makes me wonder if the two refs knew who you were also and that's why he had the quick trigger...

Could be. I've worked with one (not the one that whacked me). I do have to say in my defense, that's the absolute most complaining I've ever done. I have no problem with how they call the game, I won't complain about that. My problem with the whole situation is where the block call came from. Oh well, now I know how it feels from a player's perspective. When you open your mouth, you're rolling the dice.

tested the waters again myself
 

I decided to re-join the playing circuit last week to help my squadron in the play-offs of the Old-man intramural league on base. Rest assured, if this had been me before my officiating days I would have picked up a 'T' somewhere along the line. I played in 4 games before we got knocked out the play-offs.

Everyone who worked my games were officials I have worked with (including one I do some YMCA games for and another who is a very good friend and mentor of mine).

My teammates, despite the full knowledge that I'm a ref, stilled managed to pick up 2 techs, including 1 in a game we were winning by 20. I tried my best to keep my teammates composed after controversial calls but some of them will never learn.

My mentor laughed at me the game he worked b/c he knows 5 years ago I probably would not have seen the end of that game. I'll just say his partner unecessarily expanded his coverage area from time-to-time but then froze up during game management situations. Oh well, that experience and the swollen, locked-up knee I suffered convinced me once-and-for-all that I'm now solely meant to be a referee and that my playing days are over for good.

Sounds to me like you didn't get your $15 worth.

Last month the officials from one organization I work for played against a team from Henderson Hall (Marines). We lost the game by 8 points and I nearly avoided any flashbacks. I was hot, well I'm still hot right now, and my teammates didn't get me the ball. At the end of the game we were trying to foul. One of the (3) officials knows how I am as a player :D and he didn't call the first foul. Once I caught up to the player again, I fouled him again and said in a "loud voice", "Call the foul!" I didn't get a T but I was pissed; I have had several conversations with this guy and he should have known to call the foul when we are trying to foul.

I think Junker's ref was baiting. Offering a conversation isn't baiting.

IMO

If you don't know what he said, you've no business throwing a T.

And if you didn't hear what was said, then "I wasn't talking to you", is no reason to throw a T.

99.99% of the time I heard him pretty well. This can be one of those teachable moments. I would never do this in a college game but in a high school game if the situation warrants it I have no problem.

Dude, I wish I could have seen that. :D

Wonder if this ref got his "take-no-crap-in-rec-games" attitude from watching someone else ref. Wonder who that could have been.

Man, I'm drawing a real blank here, Jeff. ;)

Snaq.... I was kind of thinking the samething... I wonder who he got it from?!?! :)

So HS games have less value than college games?

Makes no difference. If you didn't hear what he said, you have no business throwing the T.

Let me clarify 99.9999% of the time I know exactly what was said. The other .0001% I heard enough of it to have a good idea.

And all games have the same value. I take as much pride in what I do and put in as much effort in a 6th grade Jr High game as I do in a college game. The difference is that I expect a lot more from a college player. At the lower levels there are more opportunities to teach. You also have more latitude in how you handle situations.

If you didn't hear what he said then what is the purpose of asking him/her to repeat it? That's just asking for trouble. No need to put s**t in the game.

Fine. If you hear something, then call the T. But don't bait the kid into it by asking, "Did you say something?"

By asking him I'm trying to avoid the T. If he tells me what he said, I'll just talk to him and he'll avoid the T. That's the whole trying to teach part. If he lies to me and gets whacked, whatever he said deserved it in the first place and now he lied.

Okay partner. Whatever you say.

Junker:

Were you playing at Aspen?

I've heard many stories about that place........

Junker
 

I'd love to help ref your league. Send me a personal message if you are interested.

I didn't expect this to be such a hot topic. I don't think the guy was really baiting me, he is just an inexperienced lower level guy that doesn't manage the game well. I'm biting the bullet and paying my fine today. I figure (as Adam will probably verify) that I've probably thown a T or 2...or 3...or 4 that weren't warrented in lower level and weekend games. The guy was right not to put up with any crap, but if he didn't hear it, how did he know I was giving him crap? We're still in good shape as far as getting a good playoff seeding. I'll just channel my frustration into playing harder.

Ha, funny this would be a topic, as I ran into this situation as a ref.

Mens Rec league, competitive game, under a minute to go. I'm T near the sideline, working w/ a true 'rec league' official. Ball goes out on my sideline below FT line extended, off of A1. As I blow my whistle and signal for posession for B, my 'partner' comes in blowing his whistle. I know my expression says 'WTF?!?!?!':eek: :confused: , but I wait for him to finish signaling the same thing. A2 proceeds to start hollering at my partner, WHACK!! Two shots and the ball. What was a one point barn burner turns into a five point contest (B made fts, then got a layup) and my 'partner' almost got choked. I was able to get him out of harms way (sent him to admin the tech fts), then pulled him to the side to offer suggestions after the game (stay out of the way if it isn't your call, then you won't be put in this situation). Even offered after we were done to pay for him to go to a camp to learn the correct way to ref. Never took me up on it.

Oh well.:rolleyes:

Are you sure he wasn't just trying to keep from working overtime?

LOL!!!!

No, trust me, he had no clue. All I have to say is "Ball-hawking while standing under the basket."

:D

Not implying that this applies to your league, but I have seen plenty of men's league and church leagues where the officials are only "rec" officials who have no desire to get better or officiate at a higher level. They are there because they want the money and they probably like basketball. They are different from us though who are "real" officials. We have to understand that their goals are different. They do not want to move up the officiating ranks and they probably view the game much more as a player than an official.
That being said: these guys deserve respect from players because in that particular league, they are the officials. These guys who only work men's leagues have to put up with a lot of disrespect from grown men who when they get on the court act like little kids at times and if they need a technical to quiet them down, I have no problem with the ref doing as he sees fit. Too many men's leagues down here in Texas turn ugly and that is why I will not referee them anymore unless I personally know the guys who are playing and even then, I may decline the offer.