Rule Changes for Next Season
 

See the following (I like the change regarding lag time):

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

INDIANAPOLIS, IN (April 19, 2006) - Beginning next season in high school basketball, only one warning will be given for any of the
four delay situations before a technical foul is assessed, including the
newly approved delay situation for water on the court following a
time-out.
This change was one of five rules revisions approved by the
National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Basketball
Rules Committee at its April 9-10 meeting in Indianapolis. The rules
changes subsequently were approved by the NFHS Board of Directors.
In addition to the new delay situation for water on the court following
a time-out, the other delay situations in Rule 4-47 are for throw-in
plane violations, for a huddle by either team and contact with the free
thrower, and for interfering with the ball following a goal.
Previously, a team could receive a warning for each of the other three delay situations before a technical foul was assessed and two free
throws awarded to the opposition.
"The elimination of three warnings for various delay-of-game
situations into one warning will better assist with the flow of the
game, as well as the administration of the rule by officials and
scorers," said Mary Struckhoff, NFHS assistant director and liaison to
the Basketball Rules Committee. "With new tactics of additional
delay-of-game situations increasing, such as wiping up the floor
following time-outs, the rule gives coaches and officials clear
direction on limiting these situations by allowing only one warning
prior to administering a team technical foul."
In another major change, the exact time observed by the referee
may be placed back on the clock when an obvious mistake is made by the
timer in starting or stopping the clock.
"With this change in Rule 5-10-1, it eliminates the lag
time/reaction time of the clock operator," Struckhoff said. "If the
referee observes the time on the clock when an error occurs, the exact
time will be able to be put back on the clock."
Two equipment changes were approved by the committee. In Rule
3-5-2, the guidelines for headbands and sweatbands were altered, and in
Rule 3-6, the school logo/mascot now will be permitted on pants,
compression shorts, sweatbands and headbands.
Headbands and sweatbands must be white or similar in color to
the torso of the jersey and must be the same color for each item and all
participants. Only one item is permitted on the head and on each wrist.
Sweatbands must be a maximum of four inches and worn below the elbow.
"Increasingly, headbands and sweatbands have become items of
concern, mainly on how and where athletes have worn them," said Nate
Hampton, assistant director of the Michigan High School Athletic
Association and chair of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee. "Many are
concerned that these items are worn mainly for decorative reasons or
individual identification rather than for a useful purpose. This change
will give a clearer direction on where sweatbands may be worn, and the
colors will be more reflective of team and school."
Among the five rules changes was the addition of a new signal
for a team-control foul. The mechanics for this signal will be extension
of the arm with the fist punched. Struckhoff said the new signal should
eliminate confusion at the scorer's table, as well as with players,
coaches and fans.
"Today's game of interscholastic basketball is in the best
position ever," Hampton said. "The great work done by so many
knowledgeable and caring previous committee members has made for the
great game we enjoy today. This year's committee discussed at length
many proposed changes with an eye on how each proposed change would
affect the game as it is coached, played, officiated and understood by
the various levels of participation in interscholastic programs across
the nation."
In addition to the actual rules changes, six major editorial
revisions were approved by the committee, along with five points of
emphasis for the 2006-07 season.
Among the editorial changes is a revision to Rule 5-11-2 which
prohibits on-court entertainment during a 30-second time-out.
In addition to the point of emphasis on the Proper Procedures
for Handling Apparent Concussions that is being emphasized in all NFHS
sports rules this year, the Basketball Rules Committee issued four other
areas of concern: uniforms, time-outs, intentional fouls and rule/signal
enforcement.

Hooray on the elimination of lag time, and the "punch" signal on team control fouls.

Boo on the addition to the fashion police duties.

But, oh well, change is always for the better, right? ;)

This is a good idea, which I (and I'm sure many others) suggested, at least for a signal given at the spot of the foul.

What I'm wondering is if this signal will also be given while at the table reporting similar to a PC foul, or if you should go ahead and give the push/block (or whatever appropriate) signal for the foul you had -- say for an illegal screen or a pass and crash (probably 90% or more of the TC fouls).

The only problem I see at the table, and this may be minor, is that if I punch my fist toward the table, it may not be picked up as well as it would when given on the floor in direction of the new offenses' basket. But if this is the biggest issue that comes out of rules/mechanics changes this year, we are all in great shape.

As far as the bands go, I'd prefer not to have to worry about them. I fear that certain officials took it upon themselves to enforce rules that didn't exist by prohibiting certain bands (say, on the upper arm) and the committee heard about it and wanted things to be consistently enforced. I don't know this to be true -- its just my speculation.

What constitutes an obvious mistake? :(

Where is the link to this on the NFHS website?

Thanks,

Z

Perhaps the "obvious mistake" of the timer not stopping the clock at the instant the whistle sounds?

I don't have the link, as it was forwarded to me via email and I cut and pasted it. You'll notice on the date that it was just released today so they may not have posted it as of yet on the website.

So for the team control foul, you don't come straight up with a fist to stop the clock... just a whistle and a punch?

I'm going out on a limb here and say they are adopting the NCAA-W signal, which is a whistle, then the punch in the new direction. If they keep in line with other Fed. signals, they might do a "hybrid" approach with the fist in the air to stop the clock for the foul, then the punch.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out on the website.

Oooh, the anticipation! :D

For every foul call, you should have a simultaneous whistle and fist straight up. What you do after that is based on the situation.

from www.nfhs.org click on Sports and Rules Information and then click on Basketball

And what constitutes "the instant the whistle sounds"? Are you going to put 1/10th back on the clock?

Why would you think that?

Because the article stated the following: "The mechanics for this signal will be extension of the arm with the fist punched."

Didn't say anything about killing the clock... just wondering.

I may be mistaken, but the Fed Mechanics chart shows that ALL fouls are initially signalled by the fist in the air, followed by the appropriate signal for the foul committed...much like the PC foul call, it's whistle/fist first, and then the PC signal.

The mechanic for ALL personal fouls is an extended fist followed by a bird dog and/or preliminary signal.

No reason to think this one should be any different.

No, you aren't mistaken.

True, I was just going by what Mary said exactly.

In addition to the point of emphasis on the Proper Procedures for Handling Apparent Concussions that is being emphasized in all NFHS sports rules this year, the Basketball Rules Committee issued four other areas of concern: uniforms, time-outs, intentional fouls and rule/signal enforcement.

:rolleyes:

Intentional fouls are going to be a point of emphasis until they either redefine the foul as what the name implies (i.e. intentional) or call it something else. The committee contridicts themselves when they say they want intentional fouls called early and late, and also states that fouling to stop the clock is an acceptable coaching strategy. You can't have it both ways.

The official sees that the clock didn't stop immediately on his whistle. If the clock shows tenths, and I see that the clock clicked an extra tenth, then yeah, I'm putting it back up.

The fact is that I think this rule should only be used when tenths are showing. If the clock doesn't show tenths, then you don't really know where it was when the whistle blew. Was it at 3.7 or 3.1? You don't know unless you can see the tenths. If there are no tenths showing, you're adding a full second, when it's possible that only 2 tenths ran off.

I hope the full rule mentions tenths, like the college rule does.

Being focused on the team control mechanic, I missed this the first time. It is an extremely BAD idea for a few reasons. First, while I realize what's written here is not the complete rule, it seems to only apply in cases where the official is actually looking at the clock when he or she blows the whistle. How many times does this actually happen, even late in the game? For me, not very many.

Second, it encourages coaches to nitpik this to their advantage, stressing the officials should put up time even when it isn't warranted. This, along with the tap/try rule with less than half a second could be crucial. The coaches aren't going to care 1)what the rule actually says and 2)what the facts actually are. They are going to have heard this was a rule change and attempt to use it to their advantage. More grief we don't need.

Third, I've witnessed the wrong time being put on the scoreboard, and on many clocks, there isn't a way to set hundreths of a second. Say you blow (and see the clock at) 3.7 left and it stops at 3.3, and the clock can't be reset except to either 3 or 4. What are you going to do?

Finally, while I haven't tested this and would certainly be willing to try and potentially be proven wrong, I have serious doubts that anyone can precisely see when exactly what the clock had when they blew their whistle. Remember, there is SOME time that went off the clock between the time the event that led to the whistle being blown and the actual blowing of the whistle (not to mention the sound waves traveling, but that's likely trivial enough to ignore). Why not correct back to that time, if the official has definite knowledge?

I absolutely hate it when officials start monkeying around with the clock. I know in certain situations it needs to be done, but this rule will cause nothing but trouble.

I don't think this will be a problem at all. Most people when reporting a PC foul signal with an arm extended out to the side (i.e. in the new direction) following the back of the head mechanic.

I think for the new team control signal at the table, we'll see people reporting with a punch going in the new direction of play vs. toward the table.

Not quite...

She said nothing about a whistle! ;) Just stick your arm out and hope they hear your biceps and triceps quiver as you punch!

Why do think that's the case? It seems more logical to believe that the way the NFHS detailed an official obtaining definite knowledge before still applies. While one case play described the official looking at the clock WHILE blowing the whistle, the others have the official looking at the clock AFTER blowing the whistle.
The way I take this new rule both will apply and the first time that the official sees on the clock will serve as definite knowledge and the correct time.

Quite true, but coaches already plead for every little thing that will help their team. Will this make it worse? To some degree yes. But remember that you still have discretionary power. Do you give the coaches everything else for which they beg? In my mind the tradeoff is still a positive one as this rule does give us the ability to restore time to what we saw when less than one second comes off, and as you correctly point out there are certain times, particularly with less than one second remaining, when this makes a huge difference. Last season we did not have this power at all. Used wisely, I believe that this will make the NFHS game better. Used indescriminately, this could indeed make a huge mess. I guess that is why they pay us the big bucks. ;)


Well, how about setting the clock to 4 and having the timer flick it on and off very quickly to run it down to 3.7? I have seen this done and it usually isn't that tough.

Remember you don't have to see the clock exactly when you blow the whistle. The definite knowledge starts when you DO see the clock. Just as you can't call a foul that you don't observe, you can't reset the clock to anything that you don't see.

I think the new rule regarding the clock will be very helpful just because it allows officials more latitude to be precise. What I don't like is the continuing trend that NFHS has toward being ticky-tack. A rule/point of emphasis should not be put in if consistently enforcing it is overly-officious. The uniform regulations this year are just that, ticky tack. Who cares about sweatbands and headbands, honestly? Doesn't NFHS have more to think about than this? Also, while consolidating the warnings for delay is a good idea, it should reduce the enforcement of the delay rules, because nobody wants to T someone for a bit of a wet spot on the floor after a TO.

The last couple of years, ticky tack stuff has been addressed, like faceguarding, and leaving the court. These are calls that are irritants. The POE on intentional fouls I think makes the rule tougher to enforce properly. Honestly, I'd like to see an NBA style change of rule, changing the intentional foul to a flagrant penalty 1 and the flagrant to a flagrant penalty 2. That, I think, will eliminate the problems associated with strategic fouling. I just wish the committee would stop being ticky-tack.

Further Rules Change info
 

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Changes
3-5-2 Changed the guidelines for headbands and sweatbands.
3-6 Added that a school logo/mascot is also permitted on the pants, compression shorts, sweatbands and headbands.
5-10-1 The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock when a timer’s mistake has occurred.
4-47-4, 10-1-5e New A fourth delay situation was added for water on the court following any time-out.
9-2-11,10-1-5 c, d Changed the procedure for delay warnings to only one warning for any of four delay situations (previously three).
SignalChart Established a new signal for a team-control foul. The arm is extended and the fist is punched.

2006-07 Major Editorial Changes
3-3-6 Clarified that a player who has any amount of blood on his/her uniform shall be directed to leave the game until the situation is corrected.
4-10 Clarified that a closely guarded count is terminated when an offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past a defensive player.
4-19-14 Clarified that an unsporting foul can be a noncontact technical foul which involves behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.
4-34-1,2 Clarified that a player is one of five team members who are legally in the game at any given time except intermission and that during an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.
5-11-2 Clarified that during a 30-second time-out, no on-court entertainment should occur.

Points of Emphasis
1. Concussions
2. Uniforms
3. Time-outs
4. Intentional Fouls
5. Rule Enforcement/Proper Signal Use


=================================================
Above is what will appear in the front of the Rules book this coming season. (I had it in the nice little chart form, but the forum keeps rejecting the post for being over the 10000 character limit, so I've cut it down to just the text.) I'm posting this as it sheds even more light on the coming rule changes. Particularly notice those editorial revisions. The first one is big change for me. The previous wording said excessive blood on the uniform so I used to allow kids to play with some blood on a jersey. That will no longer be the case.

And no, Tony, a "timer's mistake" isn't defined. But you are certainly astute to ask for a definition of this term as well as "obvious timing mistake."

Fouling to stop the clock is an excellent coaching strategy. Will continue to be for years to come. The cmte. is saying they want consistency and that the officials understand the game of basketball. The need for "purposely" going for the ball in the early stage of a game is extremely low. If it does happen, the official has to have the squirrels to make the call. I have no problem calling and intentional foul prior to the waning minutes of a game. Have done so about 3 times this season, too.

While I will accept the POE, I doubt it will change my game much. I was also the official that had no problem issuing a technical foul for excessively swinging the elbows, when that was the penalty for that infraction, or for issuing a technical foul for purposely leaving the court for a huge advantage (ie. past the point of preventative officiating).

I have no problems with having it both ways.

4-19-14 Clarified that an unsporting foul can be a noncontact technical foul which involves behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

What's being clarified by this? Hasn't this always been the case? I don't understand why this needed to be included in this year's changes.

[QUOTE=Texas Aggie]Being focused on the team control mechanic, I missed this the first time. It is an extremely BAD idea for a few reasons. First, while I realize what's written here is not the complete rule, it seems to only apply in cases where the official is actually looking at the clock when he or she blows the whistle. How many times does this actually happen, even late in the game? For me, not very many.
QUOTE]

A good non-calling official looks at the game/shot clock immediately after all whistles and when the ball is put in play to make sure the clock stops and starts appropriately. It's not that difficult to train yourself to do this - just a game or two.

[QUOTE=Texas Aggie

Second, it encourages coaches to nitpik this to their advantage, stressing the officials should put up time even when it isn't warranted. This, along with the tap/try rule with less than half a second could be crucial. The coaches aren't going to care 1)what the rule actually says and 2)what the facts actually are. They are going to have heard this was a rule change and attempt to use it to their advantage. More grief we don't need.

QUOTE]

What coach doesn't beg and plead for a little "advantage here or there"? This is no different than any other rule or situation. Coaches don't know the exact rule and mis-represent the facts all the time. So what else is new?

[QUOTE=Texas Aggie]
Third, I've witnessed the wrong time being put on the scoreboard, and on many clocks, there isn't a way to set hundreths of a second. Say you blow (and see the clock at) 3.7 left and it stops at 3.3, and the clock can't be reset except to either 3 or 4. What are you going to do?

QUOTE]

I've had this happen - wanted 12.3 on the clock, but clock could only be reset to 12 or 13. I asked to clock operator to start at :15 and run it down and stop it w/ 12.3 seconds (took a couple of tries, but he got it).

Reset the clock only when you have definite knowledge. You only call the fouls you see, even if you miss the "first" foul, correct? So only reset the clock to the time you "see". It's not that difficult: "Coach, I'm resetting the clock to the exact time based on definitive knowledge".....

Is the reseting of the clock really going to be that big of a deal?

I would venture to guess one of the main reasons why this rule has been changed this year. Pa. Class AAAA Championship game a few weeks go. Team A is down one, ball goes OOB and whistle is blown with .6 or .7 seconds left. Clock ran out -- because of lag time officials could do nothing about it. It is this type of situation that the NFHS is changing the rule for, not to add .1 second if an official blows the whistle at 45.4 and it goes down to 45.3 in the 2nd quarter. Bottom line, use common sense guys. If the clock needs to be fixed, then fix it.

I couldn't disagree more. Your focus should be intently on the players.

I agree you should keep an eye on the clock whenever possible, mostly during a transistion, but don't do it "immediately" after a whistle. That's when you'll miss an elbow to the chops.

In a playoff game last year (I was watching, not working), they tried to do this exact thing (for 3.6 seconds, I believe), and the idiot clock operator set it for 36 seconds. This was after the operator didn't start the clock properly on an inbounds play, and the officials mistakenly let them replay the entire last 3.6 seconds THREE times.

There was darn near a riot, so you'll see why I'm skeptical about a trial and error approach to clock operations.

I understand this clock business only applies to "definite knowledge," but the rest of my post answers that: how do you know if the clock should read 3.9 or 3.4? I can't agree that an official can have definite knowledge to any real precision.

I do not beleive this is a big issue if you have clock awareness. Since here in California we have a shot clock, this last season a point of emphasis for me was both shot clock and game clock awareness. Second to last game of season, rivalry game between teams 3 miles apart. Full gym, incredibily load, hard to hear any whissles at end of the game. I am L, home scores with less than 2 seconds to play, I widen out, I am in perfect alignment with clock and visiting coach, he calls a TO with 1.4. I call TO, but nobody hears, home team thinks they have won game, fans storm court. We clear the court, put .8 on clock, explain to home coach that I had definite knowledge and we will put .8 on clock, does not question decision too much, put .8 on clock and play out the game-after 3 timeouts.

What am I missing here?:confused:

Your "definite knowledge" on this play was that the TO was called with 1.4 seconds on the clock. Why didn't you just put 1.4 seconds back on the clock? How could you have any kind of "definite knowledge" at all on this play that would enable you to put 0.8 seconds on the clock?

The <b>only</b> real definite knowledge that you have on this play, as far as I can see, is 1.4 seconds.

The coach started the request at 1.4 but the official's whistle blew at 0.8??? If that is the case, the timer could not be expected to stop the clock before the whistle. 0.8 could be the correct time.

Ouch, that'll mean MTDSr. will have to really shorten his posts!

Thank You for the information on the Rule Changes

Maybe that is why you are a high school referee and haven't moved up in the ranks. Anyone who is worth there weight knows and has been taught that you refereee the clock as well as the game. Blow whistle -- look at the clock. Do you think that coaches monitor the clock when a whistle is blown? Nope. Especially not in high school. Here is a tip -- get a clock reference when any whistle is blown.

Do you mind spelling out what your own personal qualifications are that allows you to look down on the lowly, average high school official?

NCAA D1 official?

NBA official?

Just wondering......

you can still referee the players as you look at the clock for a split second to get an idea of what it reads....surely as officials we can do both!! I feel this is an important part of "game management", if anything happens, you will know what to do!

[QUOTE=bbref3103]Maybe that is why you are a high school referee and haven't moved up in the ranks. Anyone who is worth there weight knows and has been taught that you refereee the clock as well as the game. [QUOTE]

Wow...15 whole posts and and he/she already knows what level everyone works. Pretty good detective work there 3103...and who "referees the clock"?? I ref the defense, I cover the press, I concentrate on the post, I am aware of the clock - but I've never seen the clock foul anyone or commit a violation of any kind, so why would I "referee the clock"?

I will say this about the clock. If you attend camps or work around very experienced officials outside of HS, it is common that you will hear about watching the clock. So "3103" is exactly right when it comes to this being a "higher level" philosophy. If you are just a HS official and have never attended a college camp or been exposed to experienced college officials I can see someone not knowing this philosophy about "officiating the clock." As a college official you do have to watch the clock a lot if for no other reason to deal with a shot clock. So you do get in a habit to make sure the clock started properly.

Peace

Some of us have no desire to drive 3 hours and arrive 90 minutes before game time to sit in a gym with 50 fans and make $125.

Managing the clock is not a "higher level" philosophy. An excellent official should be clock aware, regardless of whether they work HS or college. Clock management should be a part of a good pregame conference. ("Non-calling official(s) check the clock on every whistle.") Officials should be checking for proper clock start after clock stoppages as well. It's doable with two officials, even easier with a crew of three. A good crew can manage the clock and still monitor the players during dead ball situations.

Z

Rocky -- it only took me 2 posts to figure out what level people in this forum work. But thanks for the props on my detective work. You are right, you will never see the "clock" committ a foul or violation, but why wouldn't you want to get a clock reference EVERY time a whistle is sounded? It is for the good of the crew and the game. It will also help you remember plays, that as a crew, you can talk about in your post game. If you take a mental note of a play that happened at the 5:03 mark left in the first half (Hey Jurassic -- what level do I work) it will help you as an official discuss and recognize plays and become a better referee.

Hey Rich -- It sure is nice to hop on a plane for a couple hours and get a check at the game site for $500 to $2000. And in the same breath I still enjoy driving a couple hours to make $100 to referee good basketball. I don't do it for the money -- I do it because I truly have a "love of the game" and want to get better every game I referee.

Okay.. who the hell gave JMO the link to these boards? :mad:

Bump....

Still waiting.......

Wow...only two posts. You're smarter than I thought...and of course you want a clock reference, and not just every time a whistle is blown, but also when a basket is scored, when a turnover occurs, etc., etc...but you certainly don't "referee the clock". That's a ridiculous statement...it's called clock management, game mangement, whatever, but you're not "refereeing the clock".

I think I met this guy at the 12U AAU tourney I worked a few weeks ago. He was the guy who stopped he game to scream 'DO YOU PEOPLE KNOW WHO I AM!!???" at the parents booing him after a 3 second call.

Actually, if you read bbref3103's first post from a year ago, you'll find out exactly what he's like.

http://www.officialforum.com/showthread.php?t=19957

"Nuff said......:)

Btw, from another old thread, he gave out the information that, as of a year ago, he was just finishing his fourth year of officiating. That means that he currently has got about 5 years in. Kinda amazing how he's just zoomed by all the lowly high school officials and is now flying out and collecting all those $2000 NCAA checks in such a short time.

Ah yes, the old coach baiter. I'm sure he is flying up the officiating ladder and leaving us in the dust. I wish I had his communication skills.

Z

That comment was out of bounds. Some people, myself included, have no interest in doing any more than HS ball. I know lots of HS refs who are very good at what they do and they do no college by choice. The rest of your post was helpful, but it may have been lost in your hastiness to put down the guy.

Thre would've been a lot of typos.....;)

Reading about this guy/girl from the other post I would come up with one of two options:

1. He/she had a powerful person speaking on their behalf to make it to the D1 level. If this is the case I would say they neither deserver to be there or work on crews where they get protected. Someone has to be an idiot to give the ball to the wrong team to make a coach mad and a super moron to come on a forum and brag about it.
2. He/she isn't telling the truth and they aren't in D1.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with only wanted to do HS ball. The only problem I've witnessed is HS officials who don't aspire to get better. A lot of times that might involve a college camp.
There is a lot of BS in HS ball. Well, multiply that by 1,000,000 and that is what college ball is like. The easiest part of college ball is the 40 minutes between the lines. I could leave the rest of it alone in a heart beat. More and more it isn't about what you do on the floor, it is about who you know and other BS.
Another interesting thing I've noticed in the last couple of weeks is this seems to be more on the men's side than the women's side. I know a girl who went to a camp way out of her area and did very well. If she lived on the east coast she would be on the radar of every major conference; for her it was as simple as that. Don't get me wrong, she is very good, but I know she is not into politics and what she did would not happen - at least I don't think so - on the men's side. It hasn't just impacted me, I know many other refs who are deserving of at least a legitimate opportunity and they don't get it. I've heard guys told things like, "you should take up golf" and other things. End of rant - I have many stories I could tell.

And that's going to turn the game into a circus. How often is the timer going to be able to stop the clock at the very tenth you whistle? Never. Coaches are going to want time put back up on virtually every stoppage. Further, how often are you actually looking at the clock when you blow the whistle? Not never, but very rarely.

Exactly.

Hey dumbass, just an FYI for you. Rockyroad worked the D2 Women's Final Four in Springfield, Massachusetts this year. Which Final Four did you work?

Before or after he woke up?

I disagree.

Irrelevant. It doesn't have to stop on the tenth that I whistle. It only has to be stopped by the time I see it.

Irrelevant. Who the dexter cares what the coach wants? :confused:

Irrelevant. Again, it doesn't matter whether I'm looking at the clock or not. It only matters that it is stopped when I see it.

That's what makes the rule change a good one. We don't have to worry about when we looked at the clock to determine if lag time was exceeded. If the clock is moving when I see it, then the lag time was exceeded. Period.

JMO, obviously. But I like the change.

I do too.

Z

Me too, too.

WHAT??? You wear a tutu??? Now that would be even better than the squirrel picture!

Picture of Dan at one of last season's games after accepting accolades from the crowd:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/hipomi/ba...ge/hp00746.jpg

Sorry, I was responding to Chuck & mis-typed.

What I *meant* to say was me too, too-too.

...geeze, you little guys really stick together, dontchya??

:rolleyes:

You guys been holding on to that one for a while, haven't ya?

Who said anyone cared? I simply stated "Coaches are going to want time put back up on virtually every stoppage." Once that clock goes under 1 minute in a tight game, there will be more coaches complaining about the clock, and we will have to deal with those coaches.

You're pretty naive if you think this thing is going to be smooth sailing.

Geeze Dan, how much weight have you lost? You're practically wasting away!

I'm on a new "see food" diet.

I see food & I eat it.

Again, I just don't see how this is relevant. They're already complaining about fouls and violations on every possession. So who cares if they complain about the clock instead?

Then color me naive, I guess. See it, fix it. Don't see it, don't fix it. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

I hate to beat this dead horse into the ground, but if a person just want to do HS ball, good for them. Whatever level you are at, do the best at that level. Most people dont have the jobs, nor the time to do college ball or NBA if the opportunity comes about. So knocking someone for only wanting to do HS is very wrong.

I think this is a not completely true. Working college ball does not take a special type of job or commitment in many cases. This varies from one area to another greatly, but most college games start at the same time a HS game starts. If someone can go all weekend working a Men's League or JH games, they can work college ball at the same time as well. All college games are not 10 hours away and most assignors I know are not going to send people all over the place to work a single game. Now you might have to travel a little more, but I think people trying to act as if I spend more time working college games than I do working HS games is kind of an exaggeration. It really depends on where you live and the type of conference you work. I know many that are closer to college sites than they are working HS games.

Peace

I understand that fully, but I think that other guy's comments were misguided.

IREF,

I think we're missing Tome's point. He not criticizing HS officials who don't want to move up. He's criticizing HS officials who do nothing in the off-season to get better. HS officials who never study the rulebook. HS officials who never discuss plays and situations with other officials. HS officials who don't pay attention to anything said during the annual rules clinic. They just show up every year expecting to get full schedules then complain when they only get assigned JV games.

Give me a call.

JRut, it's a little different out here then it is in the Midwest. I have to drive 2 1/2 hours just to do my closest $75 JuCo game. One of my best friends who lives outside St. Louis can do his entire D2 schedule and a majority of his MVC/Horizon schedule in a 3 1/2 hour driving radius. There are 4 D1 schools within 30 minutes of my office but all the small colleges out here are spread all over the Virginia and North Carolina countryside. My friends who made the climb to D1 put in a lot of road time operating in the red while traveling to Florida, SC, NC, and all over Virginia to work $125 games.

I have to agree with this statement. Most college guys go to multiple camps during the spring or summer. I know a lot of very accomplished HS officials that only go when it is required. In my state to keep your IHSA license you have to attend every three years. I go to 5 or 6 camps every summer, even if it is the same camps every year. I know a lot of HS officials who only go to a camp every three years and only to keep their license. Then they will complain they had to pay money to do something that will make them better. At least in my experience this is the case.

Peace

My comments were not intended to put down someone who has no aspirations for doing college ball; I think I made it a point to highlight some of the BS that goes along with college ball.
If camp would be considered the summer season and/or practice, many officials that only want to do HS ball need to "play up" during the summer. As pointed out previously, many officials only attend camp when they are required and then they only go to their local camp. Going to a camp that might have better ball and/or instruction will only help. Isn't it only fair to be as prepared as possible when doing a HS game?
Along with college aspirations comes rules knowledge, game awareness, repitition, physical fitness (awareness of the necessity) and other things. Shouldn't those same things be put into an officials preparation for HS games.
I will speak from my own experience and I will tell you, if you have kids in the area where I work...good luck. Some of the officials aren't worth the whistle in their mouth. Their main concern is getting the big game, which they aren't ready for many times, and getting paid. The pursuit of the perfect game - which will probably never happen - should be a driving force for us all. Doesn't the saying go something like, "Shoot for the moon and at least you will be among the stars?"

Bump, bbref3103....

Still waiting.....

Wow.... JR you have an incredible memory and a little on the persistant side :D

And so am I... May be he/she is actually a basketball coach?

Man, I can feel the love exuding from this post! I do HS bball and HS and college softball here in WV. At one point I wanted to get into the D2 conference for bball but have since changed my mind. I have many fellow officials who do and they DO have to get off of work at 1 or 2 in the afternoon to make it to a school by 5:30 or so. Some work in other conferences and actually have to take a day off to get to thier games - I'm not interested in that.

As far as 3103 goes - I think his/her communication skills are lacking for certain. But his point of clock awareness I think is valid. I do work with a lot of D1 and D2 officials and have learned to have clock awareness during a game. If a coach calls time (especially at the end of a game) - I try to look at the clock as I blow my whistle - just a glance. If you aren't watching the clock, how do you know it has started or stopped? Looking at the clock IS important. I showed up at a game this year and watched the JV game before mine. I noticed the guy keeping the clock was stopping the clock on a made basket (must have thought he was in the NBA) and the JV officials were oblivious to it. (Of course I said something to one of them during a timeout because the game was going on and on and on. . .) I made sure during pregame to correct him as well. Bottom line is whether we do it or not, keeping track of the clock is a good habit to pick up. Are you telling me you ONLY watch the players?? You NEVER see that good-looking mother in the 8th row of the 3rd section?:D

We all do things and pick up things to improve. That's something that I've picked up and it gives me a better game awareness.

Hey, I've played this game before. I call Bull Sh!t!