I'm feelin ornery
 

Incredibly stupid points by Charley Rosen:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5505042

Key quotes:
"The worst basketball rule on any level is the NCAA's alternating possession on a held-ball situation. The only reason why this abomination exists is because the refs aren't capable of properly implementing the tosses for jump balls."

"I don't favor the restraining arc under the basket since it makes automatic blocks of too many obvious charging violations. (This is another rule that's become necessary only because of referees' incompetence.)"

"I'd also like to see two more refs assigned to each game, both of them in off-court stationary positions — perhaps in raised chairs as in tennis. Their jobs would be limited to calling three- and eight-second violations, goaltending, and illegal defenses."

Eight seconds and illegal defense??? Last I knew, they got rid of illegal defense.... did it come back?? (Obviously I don't follow the Not Basketball Association.)

I'd like to see Charley Rosen take the test....and then post his grade. :D

He's probably referring to the defensive 3-second violation.

Ahhhh, got ya!

When did Forrest Gump change his name to Charley Rosen? And what is with the John Wooden blasphemy? One un-named ex-player says something negative and therefore it must be true???

Clearly this clown is a.....well, a clown. Just considering the source, it's hard to take his comments about officials very seriously.

Here's your chance to fire back at Charley Rosen. Got a question or a comment:

You advocate rule changes because of referee incompetence yet you couldn't pass a rules exam, high college or pro if your life depended on it. If you're up to the challenge, come to http://forum.officiating.com/ and we'll give you an opportunity to prove you're not an idiot.

There! Let's see if he'll accept the challenge!

Talk about ornery!! :eek:

Not really. If you read closely, it is an opportunity to prove that he is NOT an idiot, not to prove that he IS one.

No, we're pretty sure that he is. It's an opportunity for him to prove otherwise! :D

He's written 13 books on the NBA, or so it says at the bottom of the story. Isn't it intetresting that he has to include that to give himself "credibility?"

Probably doesn't even rise to the level of 'plumber's apprentice'.

I have no opinion with regard to Charlie's third recommendation. But he is on point concerning his first two recommendations.

MTD, Sr.

So, a guard makes a great play to tie up the ball with the opposing center, and you prefer to have those two jump it up instead of using an AP arrow? An official's ability to throw up a straight toss has NO BEARING on the change in this rule. The AP arrow has made the game a much better game.

If I remember correctly (and there's certainly no guarantee of that at my age), the NF did include some statement about inconsistency in "tossing" (no - not the British slang) being at least a partial factor in changing the rule and using the AP instead of the jump on tie-ups.

You state that: "An official's ability to throw up a straight toss has NO BEARING on the change in this rule." If that is the case, then the rules committees should get rid of the jump ball to start the game. By the way, if the game officials feel that the tossing official did not make a good toss, the toss can be called back and done over again.

MTD, Sr.

Yes, the NFHS did. But I thought then and still do that that it was a stupid excuse and not a good reason.

MTD, Sr.

What has a guard's great play or poor play to do with the AP? Before you say the AP "rewards" great play you should note that 50% of the time it rewards the OTHER team.

The jump to start the game is ridiculous most of the time because officials don't care enough. Players can time the majority of jump balls because of hitches (a slight dip before going up) in the tossing motion. A low toss is another reason jump balls are bad. Danny Crawford, a (gasp) NBA official uses a nice toss without a dip. I use two hands and go from a bounce straight up while I'm talking so the jumpers cannot steal the tip.

How many of us have a dip that allows our toss to be stolen?

Wouldn't a better question be "How many U's don't call a violation for a stolen toss?"

This is a much quoted explanation, but according to Red Auerbach, he started the movement for alternate possession because Kareem Abdul Jabbar never lost a tip-off, and he was sick of the Lakers getting two extra possessions a game. He started complaining that the referees couldn't toss the ball up consistantly and people bought it.

The real reason this took off is that the game was getting longer due to TV timeouts and the powers that be welcomed ways to shorten the game.

Here, here! Well said.

MTD, Sr.

You got that right.

I haven't called any stolen tosses, but I did call an horrendous toss back this weekend in the Boo Williams Tourney. Technically I shouldn't have b/c I was the U2, but the toss was so horrible and the U1 didn't blow his whistle so I had to step in on the that one.


I talk also, but I don't bounce. I step into the circle and say "I'm going straight up" and as soon as I finish my sentence the ball is leaving my right hand...I'm a one-hand tosser (no smart remarks please :o )

Mark, referee incompetence have nothing to dio with the NBA's semi-circle. The rule was added by the NBA because they wanted fans, coaches, and players to understand that they did not want charges called when secondary defenders were standing under the basket. It had nothing to do with officials being unable to make the proper call.

Obviously you don't know about the "dip fake!"

I dip my shoulder but then hold it until I'm ready to toss it, not when the bohemoths think i'm going to toss.

BTW, my crew called 7 jump ball violations on jumpers this year for getting the ball on the way up.

Who needs to fake anything?

I toss it like Tom does, 2 hands in mid-sentence but not off the bounce. I walk into the circle and get dirctly between them while saying something like "OK fellas, you ready to go? Don't hit me in the..." ball goes up "...head."

How can you use that 50% stat? You odn't know for sure which play is rewarded in each situation. YOu can say there's a 50% chance EACH TIME that the OTHER team is going to be rewarded, but, for all you know, the great guard play could end up getting rewarded everytime.

Rut:

I understand why the NBA/WNBA has it I just think it is stupid and hope that the NFHS and NCAA (and don't get me started on Barb Jacobs and her lack of rules knowledge contribution to the situation) does not adopt such a rule.

MTD, Sr.

Geeze, well maybe because the alternating possession arrow actually *alternates* from team to team...and since there are only 2 teams to consider, 50% of the time the arrow will in fact be pointing at the OTHER team.

MTD, I think the biggest problem with the NFHS and NCAA is consistency. It doesn't matter if you have the restricted area or a picture of Bozo the Clown, if games aren't called consistently people will be unhappy.

Ah Mark, I think you are responding to Tony, not me. I did not make any posts in this thread until this very post. ;)

Peace

tomegun:

I agree with you regarding consistiencey. The real problem concerning the guarding/screening problem is that officials are calling way too many blocks instead of charges. I am will to bet dollars to donuts that if an official had 100 bang-bang block/charge calls and called a charge 100% of the time I would say that the official would be correct at least 95% of the time which is a higher percentage of being correct that anything that the players or coachs do during the game.

MTD, Sr.

I'm not Rut. Never have been, never will. I'd slit my wrists first.

Now, that we have that out of the way, you must not understand why the NBA/WNBA has that rule or you wouldn't have agreed with the idiot sportswriter that it was referee incompetence.

Do you promise?

Peace

Mark, donuts are really not so good for you.

You should bet dollars to a stir fried 6 oz chicken breast with brocolli, bean sprouts and mushrooms with a nice green salad on the side. Try it with the balsamic/olive oil dressing.

Rut and Tony:

This is what happens because I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other (the number one requirement to be a sports official) and try to multi-task at the same time. There is a reason that my wife gave me bubblegum before we went to bed when we were first married and weren't ready to have children.

MTD, Sr.

Dan:

You sound just like my wife only she is better looking (especially in fish net stockings) and has a sexier voice.

MTD, Sr.

I agree, your wife looks pretty good in fishnets!

:eek:

I think that the NBA/WNBA officials are competent, I think that H.S. officials are the one's that do the poor job of calling block/charge.

MTD, Sr.

The problem with this angle is that if aguard did make such a great play there wouldn't even be a held ball. He would have gained sole possession of the ball. Likewise for the center, if it was a great play by him, he wouldn't have allowed the guard to tie it up. A held ball is a mediocre play for both teams...split the difference, go with the arrow. (NCAA tried going back the the team in control but that opened up a real pandora's box of weird situations and they quickly reverted to the arrow).

Mark, is this a typo, or am I misunderstanding your point? You say that we call way too many blocks, but then you go on to say that 95% of all block/charge situations are actually blocks.

Kind of hard to figure that officials call "way too many" blocks if a block is the correct call 95% of the time.

Chuck, he's been posting under the influence since he started replying to this thread. :)

Chuck:

Tony is correct. I am typing under the influence :D . I will go back and edit my post. I meant that if a charge was called that the official would be correct 95% of the time. I even highlighted charge in red.

MTD, Sr.

Not as good as me! :rolleyes: