Grey shirts
 

Do any states or associations wear the grey with black pinstripes in their state or local associations. I am on my basketball board and I have to make a presentation on the grey shirts to our local school district coaches. Is their positive feedback on the shirts? Negative feedback on the shirts? What current states are wearing them. I think they look great and feel good and need as much info from different areas around the country that use them.

Check out a couple old threads:

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=19145

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=19446

Great googly-moogly, I love having the search function back!!!

Yeah, we're all REAL impressed! :D

I wear the gray shirts for one college assignor that I regularly work with and have been doing so for 2 years now. There is another college assignor that I work mostly to fill in for that this past year allowed his officials to wear the gray shirts. This is only allowed at the JUCO level and no other levels that I am associated with or know of. Local associations do not play a role in what we wear or do not wear. Only our state office for HS has that kind of say or a college conference you might work for can require the officials to work something.

Peace

and in Montana GS have been in use for three years and mandatory 2007-08. They are more comfortable, wash and hang dry better, but less durable, fabric is prone to pucker when sewing patches and emblems in place, traditional white on black patches don't look good on the grey background. Are we less visible to the crowd or players? Absolutely....except for those rare occasions when a call is made that a fan, player, or coach doesn't like. Me, I like tradition and I am sorry we went the grey way. In five years some middle aged dad in the stands is going to bellow "you blind zebra" and his 8 year old is going to be: "duh, Dad let me tell you about zebras......".

Vermont
 

We have used the greys as approved alternate jerseys for 3 years. I like them. Some complain about them showing sweat, but a little under armour solves that problem. NH also uses them as an alternate, but it seems to have a dominance. Ditto Maine....if you look at photo sections from their 5 boards, it is very hard to see one with a zebra.

Washington State HS games: Cliff Keen gray shirts approved for the past 2 seasons. Love em'. More comfortable than stripes, look better than stripes. Lots of comments from officials, coaches and fans that they look much better.

Z

So, will you be changing your name to "grayman"? :p

I don't know why you would be making a presentation to the coaches in your area. The OhioHSAA is the organization the tells us what we can and cannot wear on Ohio.

MTD, Sr.

I've only wore my once for a 7th/8th game this year. It was a nice change. I don't remember who posted the link to the survey on the NFHS's site for this year, but if I remember correctly, one of the questions was if the grey should be an alternate shirt for us to wear. I think it would be a good addition, jmo.

When are we going to know when the new rules take effect? Is the time around May? I know the NF has this up as an issue. Maybe they will allow these shirts to be worn.

Peace

I hate the grey shirts, I have yet to see an upside to them and I'm in a state that wore them for several years and went back to the stripes.

It is my understanding from my interpreter, who is on the rules committee is that the recomendations were to have been made this weekend and they are adopted [or not] later in the month.

The Iowa JUCO league wears grey. Personally I don't like them. I prefer the old stripes.

Our local association here in Fla. went to the greys two seasons ago with the blessing of our state Assn. I have yet to find anyone who can give me a good reason as to why we changed. The stripes are almost universally recognized regardless of the sport. Why the heck change 'em? Are they broke? Do they evoke a negative mental reaction in players? As far as comfort/wear? It's the same material...they wear the same...cliff keen mesh stripes feel exactly like the cliff keen mesh greys. I personally feel this was just something to change for the sake of changing. We'll probably be back in stripes in the next five years or less. Never has made any sense to me.

Really, the only benefit of gray shirts from an official's perspective is wear. It will likely not fade as fast as the whites and blacks on the traditional shirt will. And if you wash carefully (i.e., cold, no dryer), the stripes will hold up well anyway. However, with the material OC has on their shirts (and Cliff Keen, from what I hear, being much the same) it doesn't matter as far as comfort.

I don't think Texas will make the change anytime soon, and the NCAA still mandates the stripes. If Texas did allow the change, I would hope they would allow the option.

It's interesting to me to see the resistance to the gray shirts. Here in Washington State it's optional (we can wear stripes or gray as long as everyone is the same), and I've never, ever had a partner want to wear stripes.

Z

Me too!

The gray shirt made by OC is the same material as the microsofter shirts. This does not wear like anything except the microsofter shirts. The gray shirt made by Kliff Keen is not the same. Things could have changed recently.

Best post so far, imo. I also bought plenty of stripes when they had a 2-for-1 deal :)

Let's see, if the greys are approved in Texas, I would need to show up at games with how many shirts??? If stripes are an option and one official shows up without a grey shirt [got ripped, lost, or whatever] and the others don't have greys yet - how bad is that going to look? Having officials on the floor in a mixture with/without flags and high/low flags is barely noticeable, but why risk putting officials on the floor who are going to be so badly mix-matched?

Seems to me like it should be either stripes or greys and I don't really want to put out more $$s just for the sake of changing. It ain't like Texas is one of the higher paying states - and we rack up alot more travel miles ($$) than the east/west coast [I used to service equipment in Montana/Wyoming, so I "feel your pain" with regards to what you must have to travel!]. It sounds like grey shirts probably started because somebody was too focused on what they were wearing, had the extra money so cost wasn't a problem, and found themselves in a position to effect that change... wasteful change for the sake of changing, imo.

What would Tevye say? :D

I've worn the grays for about 3-4 years in a JUCO league. There is nothing wrong with them, I just prefer the stripes. Call me old fashioned, but I think they look better and no matter what we are wearing, people know who we are while we're on the court.

Honestly, the sky is not falling. :rolleyes: Around here, we bring both gray and stripes to our games. That way, we're matched even if someone hasn't bought a gray shirt yet. Not that big of a deal.

Z

Hey Z, this reminds me of a few years back when the pleated pants came out and people started wearing them...some had a problem with that, but how many people do you see now that DON'T wear them? The "newness" of the gray shirts will blow eventually blow over...pretty much everyone around here wears them fot the Varsity games now...

Change is hard and painful. :rolleyes: When you've dressed up like a safari zebra for so long, it's hard to accept that you will walk into the floor without looking like a zoo animal.

Z

Here in Vermont the gray shirts are an accepted alternate. But we are instructed to keep a zebra in our bag at all times just in case our partner only has zebras. Of course there have been plenty of 2 on 1 jokes where 2 zip down their jackets just before show time and the 3rd guy has to change real quick. I have even seen one guy victimized 3 times before one game.

Jokee: What are we wearing tonight?

Joker1: Stripes.

Jokee [after the unzip occurs]: Hey you said stripes!

Joker2: They ARE stripes. Just very thin ones.

So, if we wear the grey shirts, how long before some smart-*** in the stands starts calling us hippos?

Being a zoo animal is my lot in life.

Or elephants if you happen to roll in with a trunk instead of a duffel.

Well, just like Chuckie reminds everyone of a squirrel, maybe it will be your lot in life to gain similar recognition...only greater (or larger).
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/roo.jpg

I think they look cheap. Like the old AFL officials' uniforms. Looks like you are officiating a picnic volleyball game. I don't see anything broken that needs to be fixed.:D

I agree completely. Changing color of a shirt wont change the material.

The only reason I see for the change is the uniform providers are pushing for them to increase sales. And they are the same people who will push us back to stripes in 5 years.

I don't see it so much now, but a couple years ago (when I was much more interested in checking out all the new gear that could be had), the uniform guys were pushing the grey with unbridled gusto. The uniform guys are definitely one of the driving forces behind it; they're trying to pry a few bucks from the clenched fists of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" crowd!

There will always be a certain percentage of the population for whom changing fashion trends are important. And who doesn't like the feeling of showing up in the latest gear?

As fashion goes, basketball is behind the curve. Look at what's happened with baseball. What have they got now, like 14 approved colors? Razzle dazzle shiny fabric? That's a pretty radical change from a wool suit and tie, even from the old Elbeco mailman shirts that used to hang in my closet.

And soccer refs get even wilder. Long gone are the black with white cuffs there. I've seen some with what look like designer jerseys.

Wild and crazy for us was transitioning to pleated slacks. Innovative was inventing a whistle without a pea. Bold and daring is not having entirely black shoes (or maybe just those hideous rubber toes!). Let's really go for broke and try wearing shorts. Heck, if players shorts get any longer, we'll have to adopt the old short shorts just to be different ;)

Now the guys who are really stuck in a time warp are the football officials. The only change I've noticed there in the past couple decades is a new style of stirrup.

The grey shirt seems destined for widespread, if grudging, acceptance. It's a fashion thing. But in five years, I don't think it'll be back to the stripes. I think it'll be on to other colors. I do think the stripes will always be an option, maybe even the least common denominator, like the powder blue in baseball.

That's my prediction :)

Let's see now. Microfiber shirts, Sansabelt polyester slacks, Under Armor underwear, patent leather shoes - it's all a PETA plot! :eek:

Shorts would be just fine with me as long as we don't have to wear the John Stockton shorts:D

You're so right. It's a conspiracy from those multi-millionaire uniform conglomerates. I think even Halliburton is going to start selling gray shirts soon. :rolleyes:

Z

You ain't seen nuthin till you've seen Larry H. Miller in John Stockton shorts :eek:

I like the grey, but they should be an ALTERNATE shirt, not a MANDATED shirt. My first time around the block pre-dated the zebras. Blue/gray with a navy collar and [shudder] a zippered front. And airhole underarms. Some enterprising old-timer should post a pic of someone in 1970s garb.

I wish someone would come out with microfiber, lightweight, wicking slacks like the Nike Dri-Fit or Norman golf slacks they sell. All they need to do is make them beltless and remove the cuffs.

I've seen pictures of my dad in his football ref uniform from back in the '50s. They wore long sleeved white shirts (yes, even in September in Texas) and all cotton pants (not sure if they were knickers or not).

Back then, there was no polyester, Nike, or even Greg Norman!

retro look, but not back to the 1970s
 

I DON'T wear pleated pants, so it's not the "everybody's doing it" reason for me. And it's not the "newness" of the gray shirts that I don't like. I don't like the way they look! They look CHEAP, like a minor league volleyball league or a defunct summer football league or a Canadian Football League uniform. The stripes are a sharper, more professional look. :rolleyes:

Maybe if you're a zebra in heat. :D

Z

I had to wear my stripes for 3 games at the Washington state 3A tournament....One of the teams had gray for thier home uniforms........and of course I had them 3 times and each time they were home....

You don't wear pleated pants? I thought everyone had made the switch by now.

And what about the switch in home jersey colors from 'light' to 'white'?

Another conspiracy! :rolleyes:

I wasn't in the NFHS meetings, but I assume that there were some games played at some point where the home team's non-white color was a little too close to the away team's non-white color and it caused some confusion.

Z

So let me get this straight...you say stripes are more professional than gray but yet don't think pleats looks more professional than what you're wearing??

My basketball board has mandated the gray shirts for the past three years. Like everything they have their pro's and con's. One of the major draw backs that we've noticed is sometimes it can be hard to pickup your fellow official(s) when trying to make eye contact. Having watched a lot of basketball the idea that we don't stand out as much is true.

I have never had a problem "finding my partner" with the grey shirts on. Usually there is nothing on the court that you can confuse with your partner. I do not know that is a problem with the shirts. If that is the case the NBA would always have that problem.

I understand that not everyone is going to gun ho about these shirts and I can see the reluctance to use them. I equate this to when it happen in baseball and we were wearing the completely buttoned up light blue shirts and changed to the dark blue shirts. Once the change was made no one even complained or made a big deal of the change. Of course there are going to be people are going to not like any change that is made.

I personally like the grey shirts. The grey shirts are not as heavy and they are a lot cooler when it is hot. I will say I have seen guys sweat through the grey shirts and that does not look as good. If you wear something underneath that should not be much of a problem. I have worn the shirts while working college ball and I like them a lot. If they change it will not bother me. I do think the shirts should be an alternative that you wear but not a requirement. I guess we will all see in a couple of weeks what the NF will do.

Peace

I'm guessing not too many of you guys are subscribers to GQ.

It's when you give a quick look when making eye contact. If the other official is on a sideline they sometimes blend in with fans. It's not like we have to send out a search party or anything to find them.

I've never had a problem knowing exactly where my partners are when they have the gray officiating shirts on. However, sometimes when they have the stripes on I get confused and think I am visiting the zoo.

Z

Interesting...still wearing a belt also?

What's wrong with a belt?!?!

(Just gotta bring up the belt/beltless thread again!)

Personally I like a belt or two after the game.

Actually, this whole thing is a conspiracy. The switch from "light" to white for the home team is to allow for the officials to wear gray, cause some schools wear gray as their "light" color, so this will get rid of the gray uniforms for players so that officials can get into them.

Why is it that in football, white is for the visitors, but for basketball, its for home?

In the NFL, anyway, I believe that the home team actually has its choice of white or dark. So in hot weather, the home team may choose white, to reflect the heat; and in cold weather, choose dark to retain heat.

I'm pretty sure this is true, b/c I remember at the beginning of last season (I think), the Broncos "accidentally" forgot their dark jerseys on a road trip to San Diego, forcing the home Chargers to wear the dark jerseys in the hot weather.

Yep. The Cowboys have always chosen to wear white at home so that the fans see a wider variety of colors on gameday. The Cardinals, like most other teams, wear their colored jerseys [Red] at home... unless they are hosting the Cowboys - in that case, the Cardinals wear white at home and force the Cowboys to wear their dark blue jerseys. You will rarely see the Cowboys play in anything other than white - in fact, only on the road when the home team chooses to wear white themselves.

I don't know what the original reason was for the Cowboys to wear white at home, but by the late 60s and early 70s, it was generally agreed that the blue jerseys were bad luck. The Cardinals, Eagles, and often the Redskins wore white at home for their games against the Cowboys for that specific reason, even though (except for the Redskins then, and the Cardinals now) they usually wore dark shirts at home.

LSU football has also had a tradition of wearing white at home.

OhioRef3:

Please read my post above. I was hoping you would answer my question as to why you are making a presentation to the coaches in your area regarding grey shirts. The OhioHSAA is the organization the tells us what we can and cannot wear in Ohio. I tried to private message you through Officiating.com but you didn't sign up for it.

MTD, Sr.

Very uncool. Hope you feel better about yourself.

High School Level (TX) - We have always used the traditional B&W stripes for high school here in TX. I don't know if our state official's association (TASO) or state governing body (UIL) has ever even considered using the grey shirts. My favorite is the newer tight-weave mesh made by Kliff Keen (polyester / nylon blend). Our state association and local chapter do not require us to display patches on our shirts so this is not a factor for us.

College Level (TX) - Our coordinator (for NCAA Div II & III, NAIA, & Juco) would have a heartattack if we even mentioned we would like him to consider going to the greys (my opinion). He seems to me to be fairly traditional in nature. And I seem to remember seeing a memo from the NCAA recently stating explicitly that grey shirts were not to be worn in any NCAA games.

ABA - In the ABA we use a very sturdy plain grey shirt (with blue trim) made of 100% polyester by Alleson Athletics. While its tight weave and thick construction holds up very well to patches and it drapes well, it is very hot because it does not breathe well.

Pro-Ams (TX) - The ProAm circuit has used the grey shirts in this area for several years now. I think they look great and they were pretty much the same from a maintenance & care standpoint. We used the plain grey shirts one year and the grey with black pinstripe another. I preferred the grey tight-weave (private label) with pinstripes myself. It was light weight, fairly cool, and held up well to sewn on patches.

League Play & Referee Camps (TX) - And all of the referee camps and nationally affiliated Spring and Summer leagues (AAU, BCI, etc.) require B&W shirts. Even the Hoop-it-Up (3-on-3 B-ball) events in this area require the B&W stripes. This is all the way up to the Top Gun brackets (men's and women's open bracket which includes many top college players and some that have played at the semi-pro level). So TX is pretty much a B&W striped shirt state in this category.

Appearance vs Comfort & Care- It has been my experience that both types of shirts (B&W and Greys) have some characteristics that are beneficial and some that are not. For instance, both can be found in 100% polyester or some type of cotton / poly blend. And both can be found in a solid weave or some type of woven mesh. The mesh shirts are generally cooler but some don't hold up very well when you start sewing patches on them. While the solid weave shirts (both 100% polyester & cotton / poly blends) hold up better to patches, they might not breathe as well and so might be hotter. My favorite material (disregarding color) is the tight-weave mesh made of 100% polyester (inside) and 100% polyester (outside) by Kliff Keen.

So, in my opinion, the bottom lines is...decide which color scheme you want to go with for your conference...then find a manufacturer that makes one that fits your needs. But that's just me... :o :rolleyes:

While I agree with you that he'd give a firm "no" to the idea, he wouldn't have a heart attack. He wore a solid grey shirt (no collar, but with a zipper if you can believe that) in the early '90s while working on the Southwest Conference staff. He might even still have those shirts.

Hmmm...a little touchy about those Grey Cup uniforms, are we?

Call me an old fogey -- but I like the stripes much better. Just a matter of personal taste.

Old fogey!

Old, old, old fogey who probably still wishes we got the ball out of the peach basket after every hoop. :D

Z