Gender-neutrality

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:26am

In a previous post, Mark Padgett used the word "guys" and then commented to me that the word is now gender-neutral. So I'll make you folks a deal, and I'm wondering if other women on the board will join me in signing at the bottom. (Rebecca, where are you? Lori, are you behind this?)

I, basic average woman, will agree to spend the next five years learning to hear the word "guys" as gender-neutral, if all you, enlightened men of the ref world, will agree to spend the same span of time learning to use other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral. This will be an advantage to me, since my feelings will be hurt less often, and an advantage to you men refs since you will separate yourself from all those unenlightened cretins who still club women and drag them back to the caves.

Signed,

juulie downs

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
In a previous post, Mark Padgett used the word "guys" and then commented to me that the word is now gender-neutral. So I'll make you folks a deal, and I'm wondering if other women on the board will join me in signing at the bottom. (Rebecca, where are you? Lori, are you behind this?)

I, basic average woman, will agree to spend the next five years learning to hear the word "guys" as gender-neutral, if all you, enlightened men of the ref world, will agree to spend the same span of time learning to use other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral. This will be an advantage to me, since my feelings will be hurt less often, and an advantage to you men refs since you will separate yourself from all those unenlightened cretins who still club women and drag them back to the caves.

Signed,

juulie downs

Please list a few words from "other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral," for our consideration.

Brian Watson · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:31am

Basic average woman? Sounds like a Rome gloss.

To which other gender inequal vocab do you refer Jules?

mick · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
In a previous post, Mark Padgett used the word "guys" and then commented to me that the word is now gender-neutral. So I'll make you folks a deal, and I'm wondering if other women on the board will join me in signing at the bottom. (Rebecca, where are you? Lori, are you behind this?)

I, basic average woman, will agree to spend the next five years learning to hear the word "guys" as gender-neutral, if all you, enlightened men of the ref world, will agree to spend the same span of time learning to use other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral. This will be an advantage to me, since my feelings will be hurt less often, and an advantage to you men refs since you will separate yourself from all those unenlightened cretins who still club women and drag them back to the caves.

Signed,

juulie downs

jewel,
Whatever you said works for me.
You've got me way to skeered to comment.
Udaman!

mick

Dan_ref · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
In a previous post, Mark Padgett used the word "guys" and then commented to me that the word is now gender-neutral. So I'll make you folks a deal, and I'm wondering if other women on the board will join me in signing at the bottom. (Rebecca, where are you? Lori, are you behind this?)

I, basic average woman, will agree to spend the next five years learning to hear the word "guys" as gender-neutral, if all you, enlightened men of the ref world, will agree to spend the same span of time learning to use other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral. This will be an advantage to me, since my feelings will be hurt less often, and an advantage to you men refs since you will separate yourself from all those unenlightened cretins who still club women and drag them back to the caves.

Signed,

juulie downs

Please list a few words from "other vocabulary that is more historically gender-neutral," for our consideration.

I'm guessing that "unenlightened cretins" would *not* be
gender neutral.

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I'm guessing that "unenlightened cretins" would *not* be
gender neutral.

I'm not from Crete, so I know who she's not referring to me!

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
jewel,
Whatever you said works for me.
You've got me way to skeered to comment.
Udaman!
mick

mick! You were supposed to say, "You go girl!!"

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
jewel,
Whatever you said works for me.
You've got me way to skeered to comment.
Udaman!
mick

mick! You were supposed to say, "You go girl!!"

Tony,
Maybe, Jewel won't notice. Ya, think?
mick

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 10:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
jewel,
Whatever you said works for me.
You've got me way to skeered to comment.
Udaman!
mick

mick! You were supposed to say, "You go girl!!"

Tony,
Maybe, Jewel won't notice. Ya, think?
mick

JUULES, DID YOU SEE WHAT mick WROTE ABOVE??!!

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
jewel,
Whatever you said works for me.
You've got me way to skeered to comment.
Udaman!
mick

mick! You were supposed to say, "You go girl!!"

Tony,
Maybe, Jewel won't notice. Ya, think?
mick

JUULES, DID YOU SEE WHAT mick WROTE ABOVE??!!

Quit tellin'! I'll give you 1/2 my candy bar!

rainmaker · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 11:15am

Gender-neutral vocabulary for general use:

Folks
People (the youth pastor of our church uses this a lot)
Ladies and Gentlemen (for formal use)
Fellow Refs
Anyone else... (near the beginning of a question)
Friends (used by Quakers, especially)
Unenlightened Cretins

Mick--

I'm not quite sure why you're "skeered". I'm not attacking anyone, nor am I trying to be a victim. Mark expressed a desire to be seen as talking gender-neutrally, and I'm trying to help him in that direction. What I'm saying is that if we are all going to get along, we all need to work at it -- if y'all will try, I'll try too.

juulie

Dan_ref · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 11:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Gender-neutral vocabulary for general use:

Folks
People (the youth pastor of our church uses this a lot)
Ladies and Gentlemen (for formal use)
Fellow Refs
Anyone else... (near the beginning of a question)
Friends (used by Quakers, especially)
Unenlightened Cretins

Mick--

I'm not quite sure why you're "skeered". I'm not attacking anyone, nor am I trying to be a victim. Mark expressed a desire to be seen as talking gender-neutrally, and I'm trying to help him in that direction. What I'm saying is that if we are all going to get along, we all need to work at it -- if y'all will try, I'll try too.

juulie

How 'bout these?

Gender neutral terms for the coach:
Jerk
Moron
Hotheaded ignoramous
A**hole

Gender neutral terms for the players:
Whiner
Crybaby
Pampered primadonna
Undertalented wannabe

Gender neutral terms for the fans:
Ignorant loudmouth (hmm, could be a coach too)
Raving lunatic
Unenlightened Cretins

mick · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Mick--

I'm not quite sure why you're "skeered". I'm not attacking anyone, nor am I trying to be a victim. Mark expressed a desire to be seen as talking gender-neutrally, and I'm trying to help him in that direction. What I'm saying is that if we are all going to get along, we all need to work at it -- if y'all will try, I'll try too.

juulie

Jewel,
I didn't figger you were rippin', but whenever a woman "looks at me with that tone of voice", the only sound I can make is "Gulp!"
Almost 31 years..., I know how to swallow.

mick

Gary Brendemuehl · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Gender-neutral vocabulary for general use:

Folks
People (the youth pastor of our church uses this a lot)
Ladies and Gentlemen (for formal use)
Fellow Refs
Anyone else... (near the beginning of a question)
Friends (used by Quakers, especially)
Unenlightened Cretins

juulie

When I first started coaching girls, I always asked what I should call man-to-man defense. The girls thought person-to-person, player-to-player, girl-to-girl didn't sound right and wanted me to stay with man-to-man. However, I will try these gender-neutral terms and I'll let you know if we switch our man-to-man defense to:

folk-to-folk

people-to-people

lady-to-lady

fellow-to-fellow

anyone else-to-anyone else
(this one sound familiar... Please just guard anyone!)

friend-to-friend

Unenlightened Cretin-to-Unenlightened Cretin

stripes · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 02, 2001, 06:39pm

Why is it that we have to try so hard not to offend anyone? Too many people, IMO, are just waiting to be offended so they can cry foul everyone. I honestly believe that the terms we use such as "guys", "man-to-man", "3-man mechanics", etc. should not be offensive to anyone. We all understand what is being said and to whom it is directed. As adults, I believe we should be able to get past all of this, without the silly discussion about offending others.

Can we stick to refereeing?