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-   -   A real POE suggestion (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/25832-real-poe-suggestion.html)

Nevadaref Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:56am
A real POE suggestion
 
Basket Interference

As in actually call it when part of the ball is still in the cylinder and the player touches it. Too many baskets are being allowed when the offensive player is committing BI.

I'm sure that the follow dunk by the Bradley player in the first half against Memphis will make the NCAA video for next season.

JRutledge Thu Mar 30, 2006 01:16am
I do not think a POE is going to change the way this is called. First of all I do not see many potential BI calls in games. Even in boy’s games where players can play above the rim at times, there seems to be only a small number of players that are up there to begin with. I look at this rule as I do every other rule; if it is obvious call it. If you are not sure, it did not happen. To me this would be a worthless POE because it is not a common occurrence.

Peace

rainmaker Thu Mar 30, 2006 01:16am
Most girls' games don't have GT or BI as a concern. And there aren't many JH games with that issue either. Not a lot of rec with alley-oop, dunking or any other above the rim play. So it's probably only going to affect about 30% of games. I'm not saying those games aren't important. There is no game more important than the one I'm working today, at least not for the kids playing it. But do they legislate POE's that won't apply to a majority of refs, or of games?

Nevadaref Thu Mar 30, 2006 01:23am
I'm talking about an NCAA POE on this one folks.

Just as was done for palming/carrying the ball this season. It did change the way it was called. This call was made MUCH more this season than in the past.

JRutledge Thu Mar 30, 2006 01:46am
Now you tell us.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
I'm talking about an NCAA POE on this one folks.

Just as was done for palming/carrying the ball this season. It did change the way it was called. This call was made MUCH more this season than in the past.
Well of course you would then be talking about the Men's game, because unless Candace Parker is playing in a game I do see many women playing near the rim. ;)

Once again I do not see this as a major problem. It is one of those things that is not happening every game or every situation even at the college level. I do not see many situations where I think this is missed. Even the play that happen this past weekend it was very close. Unless we have a ring of light that shows how close this play is, this call will always be a tough call. I do not think officials are just ignoring this call; it is tough at full speed to know for sure. POEs should be for rules that are called very inconsistently and flat out wrong. I do not think this rule is called that inconsistently. When it does happen it is such a surprise and I do see anyone just flat out missing this call.

Peace

Nevadaref Thu Mar 30, 2006 02:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Well of course you would then be talking about the Men's game, because unless Candace Parker is playing in a game I do <font color = blue>[typo here :) ]</font> see many women playing near the rim. ;)

Once again I do not see this as a major problem. It is one of those things that is not happening every game or every situation even at the college level. I do not see many situations where I think this is missed. Even the play that happen this past weekend it was very close. Unless we have a ring of light that shows how close this play is, this call will always be a tough call. I do not think officials are just ignoring this call; it is tough at full speed to know for sure. POEs should be for rules that are called very inconsistently and flat out wrong. I do not think this rule is called that inconsistently. When it does happen it is such a surprise and I do see anyone just flat out missing this call.
Well, Rut, you express good opinions on basketball, but you just perceive this one differently than I do. I truly believe that this is one aspect of the game which is handled quite inconsistently by NCAA officials. It is afterall a judgment call, but I would like to see it given more scrutiny.
Therefore, I think that a POE here would better the game.

Out of curiosity, prior to last season did you feel that palming need a POE or did you believe that it was called consistently and wasn't missed the much?

JRutledge Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:16am
To be honest with you, I did not see palming called that much this year than in year's past. I know I called it when it took place and I called it this year the same way I did in the past. I think other officials might have decided to call it more. I did not have an opinion about it one way or another. It is one of those rules misunderstood like traveling. Every time the dribbler has the ball someone thinks there was a violation when there really was not.

Peace

jeffpea Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
To be honest with you, I did not see palming called that much this year than in year's past. I know I called it when it took place and I called it this year the same way I did in the past. I think other officials might have decided to call it more. I did not have an opinion about it one way or another. It is one of those rules misunderstood like traveling. Every time the dribbler has the ball someone thinks there was a violation when there really was not.

Peace
I think it was called significantly more at the NCAA level and was an easier call to make - "coach, that's a POE this year. you know that, correct?" In essence, the POE "status" raises the acceptability-level of this type of call. Think of what happens when you make a call that, by rule, is correct but just isn't called regularly.

In the eyes of the coach, players, fans, etc., your credibility is reduced based on the call you made that nobody else does. Ultimately, we are selling our credibility with every call we make. The higher our credibility, the better game we have.

JugglingReferee Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I do not think a POE is going to change the way this is called. First of all I do not see many potential BI calls in games.
Maybe Nevada does a higher level of ball than you do, where above the rim play is more common.

rockyroad Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Maybe Nevada does a higher level of ball than you do, where above the rim play is more common.
No, it's probably an "area" thing...just because there is play above the rim in Nevada doesn't mean there's any in Illinois...it's a regional thing.

OK, sarcasm off (for now)

JRutledge Thu Mar 30, 2006 03:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Maybe Nevada does a higher level of ball than you do, where above the rim play is more common.
Maybe. Or maybe the officials know how to make that call and it is not a problem. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Seriously, I have not heard anyone say this was a problem. Officials, coaches and fans were complaining about palming not being called correctly. Palming was pointed out a few times over the years on the NCAA tape before this year. I have not heard anyone complain that BI should be called more unless the premise for it not being called based on what is assumed the rule is rather than what is the actual rule (hitting the backboard after a shot as an example).

Maybe we should create POEs because people on the internet think they should be. Yeah, that is a good reason. ;)

Peace


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