All I can say is WOW!

If the referee's didn't want South to win would they let the game go to double overtime?

This is unbelievable! This coach should definitely be reprimanded.

Isn't this the self-fulfilling prophecy in action?

I believe that what the coach said could be true.

:confused:

I,m sorry but I have worked many college games with Bill Dugan and have found him to be a very good, professional referee. I have not seen any hint of raceism with Bill before, during or after a game. Bill gets many of these post season asignments in both high school and college because he is a good referee. I did not see the game but can only speak of Bills integrity.

That would be generically and not specifically.
I certainly do not know those officials.

Whether the favoritism goes to the home team, the losing team, the unskilled team, the wrong colored team, I despise it when I see it, and I feel most awkward when I work a game with such an official.

We used to have a HS coach out here in WA who would do the same thing...anytime he lost in a regional or State tournament, he would blast the refs for being racist - he coached a team that was mostly, if not all, black...so at the Regional tournament one year, the "powers-that=be" made sure that he had all African-American crews in all of his games. Turns out he lost twice and didn't even make it to State. The reporter who had written the articles the previous two years where the coach claimed racism called the coach on it, and the coach's response was (as near a quote as I can remember) "Just because they're black doesn't mean they're any good."

People like that will ALWAYS find a reason to blame someone else whan they don't win...

WOW!! Look at the stones on that coach!!!

A coach who says to his kids, "You can't win this because of someone else's attitudes" should be imprisoned. He should be banned from any contact with children. Even if every accusation he makes is accurate (which I doubt), still it doesn't help kids get ahead to hear this kind of stuff.

And the paper should not have printed this garbage. It is only inflammatory and never helps anything. And way, way, way too many column inches.

A coach who says to his kids, "You can't win this because of someone else's attitudes" should be imprisoned. He should be banned from any contact with children. Even if every accusation he makes is accurate (which I doubt), still it doesn't help kids "overcome" to hear this kind of stuff.

And the paper should not have printed this garbage. It is only inflammatory and never helps anything. And way, way, way too many column inches.

Those who play the race card over and over again need only look in the mirror to find the true racist.

Great message for his players. When you lose, play the race card and blame someone else. I would hope this guy is fired. Classy move by the paper to include the official's names.

Perceptions of officials do not start and end with where people live or who someone knows. Race is a factor. If you want to give the perception that everything is fair, you should not have only one set of people working all those games. I am sure these officials did nothing wrong at all, but the perception is this coach does not ever see (from what he says) Black officials and whether any of us want to deal with that or not, race is still a big issue in this country. If we talk about on this site often about not working games in a town where you live or a school that you attended, why is race never a factor in this discussion either?

A great way to take away that perception is to put some Black officials on their games and he cannot use that as an excuse anymore. When you have only one group of people working a game, you open yourself up for that criticism. You cannot tell me someone Black in that area could not work those games sometimes.

Peace

My 2 cents (flame away)
 

Why did this coach assume the refs were racist? Our inner city girls HS teams play non-league games against Catholic school teams, using their league refs, and very often we also see some lopsided-ness in foul calls. It never crossed my mind that the refs were racist. We deal with it by trying to score more FGs.

My 2 Cents
 

If the coaches would coach, the players play, then every game would be a smooth game.

I would have thought seriously about slapping this idiot coach and his school district with a defamation suit.

Coach's reputations
 

Haven't you ever hear refs make comments like, "I am reffing at X city tomorrow. I hate that coach. I know he will be all over me/us with the first whistle. Well, I ain't giving him any calls, that's for sure." You get a coach like the one in this story, where he has probably mentioned this race issue in the past, or, after other games. Refs may be making these comments in jest, but, their implication to the uneducated general public is that refs do in fact come in with thoughts on how they will ref a game. I know of one coach in particular that very few refs accept games for. Those that go, if they've heard of this guy, probably come in biased.

Found an article about this game and thought I would highlight a few points...


"In the second overtime, South senior Brian Marvie came to the line with his team trailing, 58-55, with 45 seconds left. Marvie made the first foul shot and missed the second, but classmate Elijah Hughes was there to get the rebound. He missed a jumper and senior Jinazean Ball missed the put-back and Murphy came down with the rebound and drew a foul — much to the chagrin of the South bench, which thought Hughes and Ball were fouled moments before."


Hmmmm... missing foul shots as well as missing second and third chance put backs. How many more of these misses were there during the game...


"Baldarelli stole a pass to end the game and start the celebration. "

Those damn refs should have never let that pass get stolen....

"After Holy Name’s Drew Rolfe missed two foul shots at the other end, South tried to get the ball to Ball, who drove the lane, but was blocked by Emil Igwenagu with 5.2 seconds left. The Naps found Igwenagu open for a jumper, but it hit the rim to force the second overtime."

Those refs should have made that ball go in. How dare they...

"Ball finished with 20 points, but made just 8 of 30 shots."

8 out of 30???? Looks like the refs played good defense...


But for you conspiracy theorists maybe you can find something in this quote....

"The win gives the Naps a 3-1 edge in the season series. Holy Name defeated South at the IAABO Tournament in the Colonels’ season-opener, 71-51, and then again at home, 61-58. In between South won at home, 63-56. It was the Colonels’ second consecutive double-overtime game, as South defeated St. John’s, 79-75, last Thursday."

Hmmm.... the Naps always beat south at home.....

Re: Coach's reputations
 

I've never heard an official talk about not giving a coach any calls. I have heard and said that a coach can be a pain in the rear and if he or she is again, I won't be shy to give a T. If I heard another official talk about "not giving a coach any calls, that would be someone I wouldn't want to work with.

Sounds like he said it BEFORE they lost, like when they had a big lead. No wonder the kids started to think about it and I am sure that it affected the way they played.

I'm certainly not going to jump in with both feet on the side of the coach in this case.

Two of my own biases jump to the front when I see a story like this:

1) Coaches can get very emotional to the point of being irrational especially around playoff time.

2) There is still an awful lot of racism out there that we seem unable to face.

I can't really comment much directly on the incident or the article without knowing a hell of a lot more. I will say that, lacking more information, it doesn't seem right for the paper to publish the names of the officials.

I also want to state that, in my opinion, both on this board and elsewhere we put an unfair burden on the victims of racism to prove each case before they speak up. We all acknowledge that racism still exists in some theoretical sense, but if someone cries racism, 9 times out of 10 (a statistic I willingly admit I pulled out of my butt) they are accused of playing the race card or making excuses for their own faliures and any productive discussion is cut off. I think it's important to imagine what kind of perfect storm involving a burning cross and a drinking fountain sign someone would have to have in order to come here and spark a decent discussion about race.

We can point to the fact that this incident is too shrouded in questions to lend itself to a good discussion. Fine, take a step or two back and make a point. Or answer examples without names or other specifics without using the same conversation stoppers. We need to stop congratulating ourselves for the civil rights advancements that were made 30 and 40 years ago and allow serious and difficult conversations to occur.

I have seen a few references recently to adults who allow students to use racism as an excuse to fail being banned from working with kids (although I suspect that many people who try to help kids deal with racism also try to help them battle through it). So far, I haven't seen anyone call for a ban on adults who propogate subtle racism against kids or engage in low expectations. Is that because there is no concern about these people working with kids, or because we don't think this exists? Are we afraid that there wouldn't be enough adults left to work with kids?

I hate when people assume you are racist just because you are white. I worked a girl's youth league game a while back. 8th grade girls, one team was all black, the other team was all white except for one girl. It was a good game and at halftime, we sat in the corner and talked about how well both teams were playing for being 8th graders. Just then a parent (black) came up and said we were calling in favor of the white team because we want them to win and she didn't like it! It wasn't 20 seconds later that another parent (white), yelled down at us..."what's the matter, you don't think white people can play ball? you won't give them any calls !" ........You can't win ! By the way, the kids were great and every player came by after the game to thank us for calling the game...both teams!

Then according to your theory that if the all of the players on both teams are blue eyed blondes then the officials should be blue eye blondes.

MTD, Sr.

Hate begets Hate.

This isn't about race it is being anti-catholic. You know the Catholics and the Jews run the world especially high school and middle school basketball. These officials will get a call from the Pope if the don't fix the game.

If you are narrow minded, non-thinking individual of course you would look at it that way. I did not say "only put" one group of people on the game. I said put people on the game on a more regular basis and you will take away that point of view. Of course I have never known of anyone making an issue out of what eye color someone is and how that affects their decisions. I have "actually" heard of situations where people of different races have different motives and make decisions based on those motives. So if you want to avoid the criticism, then put more diverse officials on games, then you will not have to worry about what a coach or fans might say about bias as it relates to race.

Peace

I hate it when white people assume I am not qualified because I am Black. So well all have our accusations we have to deal with. ;)

Peace

I hate it when fans and coaches don't think I'm qualified because I'm wearing black and white stripes.

:)

Today's follow-up: http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dl...603070489/1116

There's also an editorial. I'll get the link and post it. Or else I'll just cut and paste the whole thing. Give me a while to track it down.

You must work with some very unprofessional people, mick. I've only seen it happen with one offiical in my games. He was a rec league official only but I screamed about it both times. If he ever applies for membership in our HS association, I will oppose it.

Ok, the link is worthless b/c you can only view it with a subscription. So here's the editorial. Sorry to take up so much space.
__________________________________________________ ____

Dianne Williamson
[email protected]

South High School basketball coach Patrick Williams made it clear that he was sickened Sunday night after his team lost a heartbreaker to Holy Name Central Catholic High School in double overtime. The coach used a variation of the word three different times during his stunning 29-minute tirade to a local sportswriter.

“I don’t ever pull the race card, I’ve been here six years and this is the first time I’ve talked about it,” he said. “If they say I can’t talk about it, I’ll tell them to walk in my shoes because it’s so hard to deal with, it’s sickening.”

And this: “I don’t know if I can deal with grown men jerking around high school kids. That sickens me, and it’s hard to see that.”

And this: “From when we were 1-19 six years ago, it’s just sickening to watch those kids get jerked. They knew South shouldn’t have won that game and they made damn sure we didn’t.”

The “they” in this case are a pair of respected referees who, according to Mr. Williams, essentially conspired to hand Sunday night’s game to Holy Name because they are racist refs who favor white players over black ones. Mr. Williams, who is black, chose to make the unsolicited accusations not in the heat of the moment, but a good 25 minutes after the game ended. He didn’t just cork off with an ill-considered remark; we know he expounded for 29 minutes because the sportswriter was using a tape recorder.

All of which, quite simply, is rather sickening.

“This is an unprecedented situation,” said Paul Wetzel, spokesman for the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association. “No one can remember charges as serious as this. I’m overwhelmed by the verbiage.”

Indeed. The six-year inner-city coach made extensive comments to Telegram & Gazette sportswriter Jim Wilson after his team’s 60-56 loss to Holy Name in the Division 1 semifinal at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, claiming that referees Kevin L’Ecuyer and Bill Dugan called more fouls against his players — which they did — and ignored fouls committed by Holy Name. Mr. Williams also told the sportswriter, incredibly, that he warned his players that the refs were out to get them when his team took a 40-27 lead with eight minutes left in the game.

“I said to the kids, ‘Watch how the game is going to be taken out of our hands,’ and it was,” he told the sportswriter. He also said, “You have the same officials, and they look at all black players and a black coach, and they make the calls.”

Now it’s time for South High to make the call, and to bench this irresponsible coach. We should also take a quick minute to ponder: Why is it always the adults, never the kids, who mar the purity of youth sports?

The athletic director for Worcester Public Schools said he and other officials are “investigating” Mr. Williams’ remarks to discern “what provoked him to say what he said.” Lest there be any misunderstanding, athletic director John J. Pepi noted that the investigation will center not on whether racism exists in high school basketball, but on the conduct of Coach Williams.

“I’m not happy that someone would make those comments,” Mr. Pepi said. “It was a great game and the fans got their money’s worth. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the officiating. That game could have gone either way.”

That seems to be the general consensus. I wasn’t at the game, but I’ve spoken to lots of objective people who were. No one appears to have seen what Mr. Williams saw. Instead, they watched two young teams pour their hearts into an exciting schoolboy game that, inevitably, left one team crushed and in tears.

“In my 17 years, it was one of the best high school games I’ve ever seen,” said Jim Manzello, athletic director at Holy Name, who said he was “surprised” by Mr. Williams’ remarks. “I know it’s very tough to lose a game like that. You have to use it as a learning experience for kids and tell them, ‘You’ve got to keep things in perspective. It’s a game.’ Win, lose or draw, they have to shake hands and move on.”

Sadly, the fine young athletes at South High learned no such lesson from their coach. Instead, they learned that it’s OK to blame others for their failure, to pull the race card even when it can’t be proven and to behave in an unsportsmanlike fashion when you lose. Does racism exist in our society? Of course it does. There’s no evidence that it played a role in Sunday’s game. While the South High team is predominately black, Holy Name has four black players, including two starters. The refs did call 29 fouls against South compared with 17 fouls for Holy Name, but sports watchers say South plays a more up-tempo, aggressive game than the more deliberate Holy Name.

Maybe, if Coach Williams truly believed that his players were discriminated against, he could have used the situation as a learning experience to explain that life isn’t always fair, but you still play by the rules and live with the outcome. (In his case, his rant violated MIAA rules that prohibit coaches from publicly criticizing game officials). Had he pointed to the inequities between private Catholic schools and inner-city public schools, his words would have more credibility. To accuse two well-regarded referees of outright racism is inexcusable. How do they salvage their reputations now?

“When I picked up the newspaper, I couldn’t believe what I was reading,” an emotional Kevin L’Ecuyer, a referee for 16 years, said last night. “It was like someone put a dagger in my stomach. I worked hard to get to a certain level. I teach, and I make my living with words, but words aren’t appropriate to express how you feel when you see your name in print associated with a terrible word like racism.”

No doubt, Kevin L’Ecuyer is sickened. Everyone else should be, too, because South High lost more than just a basketball game Sunday night.

Re: Re: Coach's reputations
 

Agreed. I have coaches I don't especially like to work for. That's based on their demeanor and behavior, not the color of their skin. But I'm not going to ignore calss or make calls because the guy's a prick.

So accusing a person with classism or bias based on where you live is OK, but making an accusation that this country has had a history of is not OK? :rolleyes:

Wrong, everyone should not be sickened by what the coach said here just because it was about race. If anything many should be sickened by this article complete level of ignorance and stupidity. If for no other reason this is the shinning example why the race issue will never get solved or dealt with properly. Personally I do not know what happen in this game I was not there. I am sure the officials did their job to the best of their ability and called the game as it should be. If you can question any "motive" than race is should never be off limits. Where are the articles questioning the other coaches for their comments for getting screwed and race is never brought up as an issue? The author needs to know if you talk about Catholic schools most of them are mostly white if for no other reason that the Catholic Church is usually not something Black people have a great membership in. Black kids will attend Catholic Schools because in certain areas they have some of the best educational programs around. Martin Luther King said the most segregated time in this country was 11:00AM on Sunday. I live in the church capital of the world and I can tell you that there is not a lot of diversity in churches as it relates to race. It is also a proven fact that private schools produce more college graduates and successful people in many professions. So I guess you can use the code words “Catholic vs. Inner city” and that would have been just OK. Bring up race and all hell breaks loose. This author has the right to their opinion, but in my opinion it is not a very educated one.

Peace

Sounds like someone missed the point the author was making...the author herself points to the fact that there is disparity between the private Catholic schools and the inner-city schools. She didn't defend that...but to point the finger at the officials and say "We lost this game because those two are racist" is inexcusable. Those two officials cannot defend themselves against that accusation because it's an accusation based on how the losing coach "feels". There is no evidence to show that the officials are racist, there is none to show that they aren't. The author is simply pointing out the fact that this losing coach used the most hot-button topic he could find to slam two people...that's sickening.

Why is that accusation any different than other accusations thrown at officials? If you say that that both the officials attended Catholic schools or are practicing Catholics (and that was true), how can you defend yourself against an accusation of that nature?

You were there? How do you know what evidence shows or does not show? The coach's feelings are no more valid than someone that has an opposing opinion. Unless someone taped a conversation in the locker room, you probably are not ever going to ever have solid evidence that is true. Since neither of us where there, all we have are opinions right now. I know in my heart of heart of people that have feelings against certain people and I have never heard them use a racial remark. I look at their actions and body of actions to draw that conclusion. I do not need someone's other opinion to validate what I already feel. Does that mean I could be wrong, of course it does. It does not mean I have the right to say what I feel or to act on what I feel.

Peace

The difference, I think, is that the author is not making any accusation at all against the officials based on classism or on where they live. The author is merely suggesting that if the coach had said, "They had more financial resources because of their economic status and that allowed them to prepare better than we did", then nobody would've batted an eye. Because that's probably true. It's not necessarily right, but it's true. The accusation of racism, however, is completely different and is probably NOT true, merely inflammatory.

The author is not suggesting that the officials were biased against this non-Catholic team. Maybe that's where some misunderstanding developed. JMO

That is interesting.

So accusations of racism are never true? I will have to keep that in mind the next time I experience something or someone tells me about their experiences. Of course racial accusation cannot ever be true. I guess all the claims of racism in the L.A. Police Department were not true either. Remember those were just accusations at one time until the world saw the Rodney King.

It is obvious that the author was not suggesting these guys were against non-Catholics. If that is what you read into my statements you did not really read them. I never suggested that was a valid criticism. What I said was an accusation of racism is no different than saying someone was bias against an inner-city team. First of all it is hard to prove. Secondly, to say an official is against inner-city teams is just like saying you are racist. I do not know too many "inner-city" schools that are all white teams. First of all we do not need to talk in code. If someone feels that someone is racist, that is what they have the right to say. I can tell you that if that accusation is made in certain school district, no one is going to talk about how sickened they are by reading those comments (it happen here).

Peace

That column doesn't make me feel I'm any nearer the truth than I was before. One red flag about journalistic laziness/sloppiness:

The stands are not often filled with objective people. It shouldn't take long to give more examples or at least be transparent about how one comes to the conclusion that no one appears to have seen what Mr. Williams saw. You spoke by phone with peole from both schools, you talked to one writer and a photographer you know who were there? Williams may be a total crackpot, but I'm not buying or rejecting it from a writer with a point-of-view who won't take more trouble than this to establish credibility.


These are the insidious comments that seem to inevitably come out of incidents like this that are patronizing fluff or worse. If you really think you and your students are the victim of racism, don't say anything about it, just teach that life is unfair and learn to deal with it? We let you share our drinking fountains and our schools, we gave Dr. King a Holiday, we watch Dave Chappelle reruns, if anything else comes up, shut up and deal with it!? When it's appropriate, my students will learn from me that life is not fair and that, ultimately, their destiny is in their hands. But I will not be helping teach them that remaining silent is part of some mutually exclusive trade-off in that bargain. My daughter will grow up learning the world is not fair, she will face discrimination AND she is free to speak her mind and sometimes, unfortunately, face consequences for that.

Williams was bound by a rule against speaking out inappropriately against officials and he should face whatever consequence awaits him for this. If he's a crackpot then wave goodbye to him on his way out. But can you please spare us the hand-wringing over "playing the race card" and the fake moralizing over not teaching kids that the world is unfair and that racism must be overcome. I don't believe people are genuinely worried about kids in these cases, I think they are more intent on stifling racial debate that they can't handle.

Guess I'll chime in here. I'll try to stay on topic.

Does racism exist in America? Without a doubt.

Do we have officials who are racist? Of course we do.

Are there there top-flight officials who are racists? Again, I'm sure there are.

Now the tough question. Would a racist official allow his/her bigotry to flow over to the basketball court? In my opinion I don't think his/her career would last very long or go very far if s/he did. I think a "real" ref's instincts take over on the court and s/he calls what s/he sees. It would take a monumental amount of forethought and concentration to make calls base on the race of a person wearing a particular jersey. An official doing that would be exposed anytime s/he worked in the presense of other compentent officials.

The most likely exposure of any type of bigotry would probably manifest itself in how an official interacts with the coaches and players during times of communication. The coach in this particular article made very little reference to his interactions with the officials. His accusations came across as an emotional outburst in my eyes. He really said nothing to back up any of his claims.

I live and officiate in the South. There are officials I have come across about whom I have my suspicions (In one case I have more than suspicion). But those views are based upon my personal interactions with these officials, not based on anything I've ever seen them do on the court. Even the one person who I know in my heart to be a racist has never done anything on the court to show that his/her bigotry has any bearing on what s/he does on the court.

again, just my $0.02, but that's what this forum is for. Right?

[Edited by BadNewsRef on Mar 7th, 2006 at 03:19 PM]

Racism and hoops
 

Racsim still exists today. I married into a family where some of my wife's brothers are truly racist. Be around them for a day and you would understand that. Racism isn't arbitrarily applied, it is a cultural/learned behavior. Surely, these refs, in their 16 years of reffing, would have exhibited racist behavior in the past. Had they exhibited such behavior, I would hope they would have been turned into their local and state associations to keep them from being in a position where their beliefs would impact the outcome of a game. The coach, by bringing up his racism concern in the way he did (playing it immediately and initially through the media), only served to discredit his claim (whether the claim was valid or not). In our local assocation, and in the state of Michigan, I believe the proper way to handle the situation would have been to bring it to the high school association, with a carefully examined copy of the tape of the game, and make the case. It is THERE and through THAT CHANNEL that true impact would be/could be initiated. Unfortunately, the coach sounds more like he is just upset that his kids blew a big lead. I did not see the game. I cannot comment on whether or not the refs called a slanted game or if the coach was looking for a scapegoat for the loss. Regardless, the issue of racism remains a problem we could all be faced with as basketball officials. Events like these tend to polarize us, not bring us together, not make us stronger, not bridge the chasms that exist in our society. The coach spoke his mind and may pay some serious penalities for doing so. The ref's reputations and careers may be jeopardized. It is hard to see who wins in a situation like this...do we all lose?

[Edited by lmeadski on Mar 7th, 2006 at 03:23 PM]

Yeah, great summary, Rut. :rolleyes: In the words of an esteemed member of the forum, "If that is what you read into my statements you did not really read them."

I didn't say they were never true. I'm not naive enough to think that racism has been completely eradicated from the world. However, in THIS case, the accusations seem to be untrue, and merely inflammatory.

I understand that completely. I never thought that's what you were saying.

I understand that, too. I guess it seemed to me that you thought the author was accusing the refs of that bias against an inner-city team. If you weren't saying that, then I misunderstood your comment. As far as I can tell, the author has made no accusation of any sort of bias against the refs, whether it be based on race, economics, class or whatever. That was the only thing I was trying to point out. If that was already clear to you, then my comments were unnecessary.

I'm not a journalist, so this is an honest question. What more could she have done to establish his credibility? She tried to contact the coach. She did contact the officials. And she talked to "several" observers who had no rooting interest. Without being an eyewitness, what else should she do to verify/falsify the coach's claims?

I agree that that comment is kind of condescending.

I think the hand-wringing is not about moralizing, but about being ticked off about FALSE accusations of racism. You don't see any hand-wringing when David Duke is drummed out of politics b/c the accusations of racism are true. You don't see any hand-wringing when Texaco is fined billions of dollars for failing to promote qualified black executives b/c the accusations of racism are true.

The hand-wringing is because it's wrong to accuse someone falsely of racism, just as it's wrong to discriminate solely on the basis of race. JMO, as always.

Agreed. And one is no worse than the other. Both tear at the core of the person being treated unjustly.

He usually does, DJ. While the rest of us realize that racism still exists in America today, we also understand that allegations are not always true. He sees one side of every discussion on racism, that if a person of color yells racism, it has to be true.

You didn't really expect that to change today, did you?

No, not really...the frustrating thing is that this coach pops off shortly after the game and makes accusations about the refs, and the refs cannot defend themselves. Like I said, the accusations are based on the coach's feelings, so how can you offer "proof" that they are wrong...it's inflammatory and, well, sickening.

This is not the place for this post BUT!!
 

Rut:

I do not know where to begin in a response to your response to my post, except to say that I am NOT (read my lips), NOT narrow minded.

I have been a liberal, prgressive, pro-union, radical left-wing Democrat all of my life; and I am an unabashed capitalist too. I will defend to the death your first amendent rights of free speech. Having clarified my position, I have no choice but to take you to task for playing the race card yourself.

Is there injustice in this county and the world? Yes there is. Is there racial hate, ethinic hate, and religious hate in this country and the world? Yes there is.

But I am sick and tired of people that want to move backward rather than forward.

I am sick and tired of people who want to be hyphenated Americans. Many, many people have worked very hard (including paying with their lives) to create a society that makes the color of a person's skin no more important that the color of the person's eyes or hair.

What I am saying applies to a person's sex, religious or lack of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, political party affiliation, and etc.

But until we stop wanting to be hyphenated Americans we will always have to deal with people who want to play the race card or any other type of card.

MTD, Sr.

She didn't necessarily have a rooting interest in the game (though she doesn't state this either way) but she clearly has a point-of-view on the topic. Her only statement establishing objective credibility of sources was to say "I’ve spoken to lots of objective people." What does that mean? Are they from one of the schools or the newspaper? Are they objective because they are not there as fans or because you, as the writer consider them objective? Was their an "objective people" section and she took her sources from there? Lots? My high school journalism students don't get to come to me with that word - you use it when you're being mentally lazy or dishonest. I don't know why she isn't telling me more about her sources, too much work or they don't sound as objective on paper but that does not get through my filter. If I really want to wait for someone to verify/falsify coach's claims, I will wait for a news reporter and not a columnist. Even then, their work should pass the smell-test.

I could be wrong, but didn't the Texaco case involve audio tapes on the nightly news? If so, that's the kind of high bar for a smoking gun involving blatant racism that seems to be required to fend off "race card" calls - and I bet there were a few of those initially anyway. You are, of course, right about false accusations being damaging and I think the editorial board of the paper needs, at least, to take a look at their initial decision to publish the names of the officials.

I also stand by my opinion that none of us really knows the story yet and it seems a little premature to decry use of the "race card" in this instance. I think it's very appropriate to talk about whatever rules prohibit the coach from speaking out and to use those as a benchmark to determine inapproriateness of his actions. I just hate to see, especially premature, pounding of the term "race card" because it has the side-effect of silencing people when they are really the victims of racism. And it often won't be the kind of violent or hateful act you would have seen in 1965, it will be a subtle comment or stereotype or lowered expectation - the kind of thing that can have equally devastating effects over time and must be dealt with more openly.

[Edited by bebanovich on Mar 7th, 2006 at 04:44 PM]

Then I guess both of us misunderstand the issue. Remember, you agreed with the article and the claim that the comments by the coach were totally false. At least I am saying I have no idea to what took place. I was not there at all. All I can do is share with you my point of view and it is up to each person to draw their own conclusion.

So what if they are inflammatory. Who are the comments inflammatory to? They do not make me upset. I know others that would not only not be upset, but agree with the comments at their face value. This is after all a free country and anyone can make any claim they want to. If the coach feels that way, he has the right to make those claims. Now I would hope he has more evidence than just words. For all we know he might have some tape that backs up the actions or words from others about the comments from these officials. All we know right now is a he said, she said situation. If the coach violated some rules, he should be punished as well. The coach did not half to put the official's name in the paper.


I did not say that at all. I said that it does not matter what the bias is, that bias can and is not greater than the claim of racism. According the author it sounds like we should never make a claim of racism and only push it under the rug. In my opinion that is the wrong message to send and much more irresponsible than anything the coach said.

Once again, this is my opinion, you do not have to agree with my point of view or accept what I said in any way. I just think if people feel something they have the right to say it. It is very possible that this accusation of racism was just flat out wrong, but if that is how he feels he is not more wrong to call racism as he would to accuse the official of cheating for any other reason.

Peace

Re: This is not the place for this post BUT!!
 

What you feel is "looking backwards" is my current life and a reality that I have to live with every day and many other Black people have to live with every day. I know you can probably avoid dealing with these issues on a regular basis, I cannot avoid those situations. A lot of times I am put directly in those situations by others based on what my skin color is. You are also not going to impress me by stating that you vote Democratic in an election either. If you knew enough about Black people you would realize that most are Democrats because of the actions of the Republican Party rather than not sharing many of the same views of Republicans. I know more Black people that are not supportive of gay issues, pro-gun control, and pro-death penalty and are more religious than anyone Pat Robertson can associate himself with. It is not about a card it is about reality. I know for many people who are in the majority bringing up race are a hassle because you do not have to deal with it. I just know that anytime I do something some that is white makes a comment or remind me of what is obvious when they look at me. Now tell me who plays the race card then?

Peace

Thank you all for playing.