No timeouts...but coach wants one

[Nu1]

I'm interested to hear how people handle the "no timeouts left" situations in games. Specifically how you handle informing coaches of their timeouts - or not informing them - and then how you handle it when a coach wants a timeout he/she doesn't have.

I saw a boys varsity coach request a timeout he didn't have. He knew he didn't and he wanted it anyway. It was during the course of play and one official looked at him and shook his head "no" to tell him, "you don't have any." The other official (new trail, right in front of the coach) looked at the coach, who was still signalling for the timeout, and gave it to him...along with the T.

I had a situation last night. Granted, it was 6th grade girls, but I could easily come across this at higher levels and want to get a better handle on how I would / should handle it. Here is the scenario...

During a timeout the clock operator (seated between the official/home score keeper and the away score keeper) tells my partner and I both teams are out of timeouts. (Neither my partner nor I tell either coach.)

Play resumes and Team A (home), down 2 points, gets possession of the ball in their backcourt with 20 seconds left in the game. As we move into Team A's frontcourt, I am the new Lead - across from the team benches. I see the coach for Team A jumping up and down signalling for a timeout just as player A1 is setting up to take a three point shot. I ignore the timeout request thinking he doesn't have any timeouts and not wanting to have to issue the T in that situation. The girl misses the 3, team B rebounds, team A fouls. My partner tells the coach he didn't have any timeouts left and he seems surprised, but is okay with the explanation as to why we didn't give him the TO.

So, any specific criticism on how I handled the situation is welcomed. But also, in general, how do you handle timeout counts?
Do you tell the coaches, "You've got one left," or "You've got no timeouts."? (I've heard some people tell me - "Don't tell them anything. What if you're wrong? It's not your job to tell them." Others seem to say it's good game management to let them know.)
If you don't tell the coaches, but you've been told by the table that they don't have any timeouts, do you ignore their request in a tight game...a blow out...does it matter? Do you just give them the timeout whenever they request it no matter the circumstances?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

[Ref in PA]

As a matter of courtesy, I attempt to inform a bench when they have used their last time out. Sometimes they are too busy with thier huddle to hear or pay attention to me - that is their problem.

If a coach wants a TO when I know he has none, I have been known to look the other way when granting the TO makes no sense from a coaching stand point (being in possession of a live ball). I have granted a TO also when I felt the coach wanted to "buy it" with a T. It is my feelings most refs are cognizant of the coaches and would attempt to understand what the really coach wants.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Nu1
I'm interested to hear how people handle the "no timeouts left" situations in games. Specifically how you handle informing coaches of their timeouts

When they have used their last timeout, I let me know after the timeout is used up. By the time that I know it's their last, the HC is already talking to his players. Never interrupt that conversation unless you are prepared to reset the timeout to it's full length.

Originally posted by Nu1
and then how you handle it when a coach wants a timeout he/she doesn't have.

Coaches have as many timeouts as they want. After the allotted (sp?) timeouts of 3 fulls and 2 30s, each granted timeout is penalized with a technical foul. That's right out of the Fed book. You do nothing different. However, I would tell the coach that that timeout will haveto be penalized, and I tell him/her this before the timeout begins. He has that right to tell his team that they are on defense.

Originally posted by Nu1
I saw a boys varsity coach request a timeout he didn't have. He knew he didn't and he wanted it anyway. It was during the course of play and one official looked at him and shook his head "no" to tell him, "you don't have any." The other official (new trail, right in front of the coach) looked at the coach, who was still signalling for the timeout, and gave it to him...along with the T.

1st official had a brain fart, 2nd official didn't. I think you knew that though.

Originally posted by Nu1
I had a situation last night. Granted, it was 6th grade girls, but I could easily come across this at higher levels and want to get a better handle on how I would / should handle it. Here is the scenario...

During a timeout the clock operator (seated between the official/home score keeper and the away score keeper) tells my partner and I both teams are out of timeouts. (Neither my partner nor I tell either coach.)

Play resumes and Team A (home), down 2 points, gets possession of the ball in their backcourt with 20 seconds left in the game. As we move into Team A's frontcourt, I am the new Lead - across from the team benches. I see the coach for Team A jumping up and down signalling for a timeout just as player A1 is setting up to take a three point shot.

By rule, it should be granted, along with the T. If the opposing sees you ignoring the request, he could be rightfully peaved. This is game awareness. When I know a team has no timeouts left, I make sure that I don't miss anything on the court.

Some might say that you can ignore the request because it is only 6th grade girls, etc.... and there are more important things than granting a TO that may hav ebeen requested just as A released the ball.

Originally posted by Nu1
I ignore the timeout request thinking he doesn't have any timeouts and not wanting to have to issue the T in that situation. The girl misses the 3, team B rebounds, team A fouls. My partner tells the coach he didn't have any timeouts left and he seems surprised, but is okay with the explanation as to why we didn't give him the TO.

So, any specific criticism on how I handled the situation is welcomed. But also, in general, how do you handle timeout counts? Do you tell the coaches, "You've got one left," or "You've got no timeouts."?

I let the table keep track of timeouts. I definitely tell the coaches when they're out of timeouts. If they've used a few timeouts in a short amount of time, I will quietly remind them that they've used x timeouts so far.

Originally posted by Nu1
(I've heard some people tell me - "Don't tell them anything. What if you're wrong? It's not your job to tell them." Others seem to say it's good game management to let them know.)
If you don't tell the coaches, but you've been told by the table that they don't have any timeouts, do you ignore their request in a tight game...a blow out...does it matter? Do you just give them the timeout whenever they request it no matter the circumstances?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

I believe it is good game management to communicate where it's warranted - when they are of TOs and when they've used a few in a short amount of time. Perhaps at other times too, but those times are part of the 10 of the 90/10 rule.

The table telling the coaches they are out of timeouts has no bearing on my calling the game. Ultimately, it is the team's responsibility to know how many TOs they have left. A coach has reason to be upset if you deliberately ignore his request. Just grant it.

[FrankHtown]

WOW. This happened last night in a HS playoff game. Team A with about 3 minutes left calls a time out. I was certain I watched one of the officials signal to Coach A , and a fellow official, that Team A had 1 time out left. Down to 5 seconds.. Team A down by 3...Team A #20 calls a time out. Official grants time out, THEN scorer tells the officials they had none left. Team B gets 2 free throws and ball and runs out clock.
I was discussing this with a veteran official. My feeling is you have a head coach, and this team had 3 assistants. So there were potentially 4 people who could keep track of time outs, and failed to do so. In that kind of a game (5A, very high level in Texas), don't the officials have enough going on to remember who has what time outs....which star player has 4 fouls so we don't foul him out with a cheapie, etc..
My friend's response was he gets both coaches together in the last few minutes, and tells them in front of each other how many time outs are left.

I can see both sides of this, and am interested in the discussion.

[JugglingReferee]

What is to discuss?

A requested an excessive TO. Officials handled it correctly. I think they missed a mechanic though.

As for getting the coaches together, I would never do that. Just tell em each by themselves.

[FrankHtown]

I'm sorry...I was more interested in the game management aspect of who, and when, communicates with coaches about timeouts. I subscribe to the theory that I don't care if there are five left or none left, I'm not telling coaches how many time outs they have left. They can count to 5 by themselves.

Others have different ways of handling. I was looking for opinions.

[Nu1]

This is interesting to me as some use the game situation to decide if they "notice" the coach asking for one they don't have (Ref in PA) and others would seem to grant the TO regardless (Juggling). I apologize if I mispoke for you two, but that's what I got from your posts. (With the exception of Juggling paying more attention to the floor as to not miss anything. )

Again, you also have to decide if you're going to be the official who tells the coaches they have none left or the official who says, "Hey, they've got assistants. It's not my job." I lean toward the side of telling the coaches, but... My main concern is that I don't want to get bad info. (perhaps less likely at higher levels, but still...) and pass it on to the coach. Then, after I told him/her, "You've got one left!" they call it to find out they don't.

I wonder if informing them by saying, "The scorekeeper has you with 1 timeout. You can check it," relieves any responsibility on the refs (my) part. I don't want to be obsessive about it...but I also don't want to be part of a mess that I could have avoided somehow.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
I'm sorry...I was more interested in the game management aspect of who, and when, communicates with coaches about timeouts. I subscribe to the theory that I don't care if there are five left or none left, I'm not telling coaches how many time outs they have left. They can count to 5 by themselves.

Others have different ways of handling. I was looking for opinions.

I tell them. The rule book (2-scorer) says something like "the score shall notify a team through the nearest official when a team has used its last allotted time out"

[ChrisSportsFan]

I believe our proper mechanic is to inform the coach when his timeout bucket is empty.

After that, if he wants it, he's gotta buy it.

[stmaryrams]

Originally posted by bob jenkins


I tell them. The rule book (2-scorer) says something like "the score shall notify a team through the nearest official when a team has used its last allotted time out"

You can give them this information as they break the huddle so as to give them all their time during the TO with their team.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
WOW. This happened last night in a HS playoff game. Team A with about 3 minutes left calls a time out. I was certain I watched one of the officials signal to Coach A , and a fellow official, that Team A had 1 time out left. Down to 5 seconds.. Team A down by 3...Team A #20 calls a time out. Official grants time out, THEN scorer tells the officials they had none left. Team B gets 2 free throws and ball and runs out clock.

Frank,

What game was this?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I believe our proper mechanic is to inform the coach when his timeout bucket is empty.

After that, if he wants it, he's gotta buy it.

AS Bob Jenkins said, it's not a mechanic, it's a rule.

NFHS rule 2-11-6- "The scorer shall record the time-out information charged to each team(who and when) and notify a team and it's coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted it's final allotted charged time-out".

If the scorer doesn't do his job and inform the official so that the official can then notify the coach, well, that's too bad. It's a scorer's error- not a correctible error.

Case book play 10.1.7 covers the second part of the play explicitly:
10.1.7SITUATION: A1 requests and team A is granted a time-out late in the fourth quarter. Team A has already used it's three 60-second time-outs and it's two 30-second timeouts.
RULING: Team A is granted the time-out and is charged with a technical foul. No indirect foul is called to the head coach.

If a player/head coach asks for a time-out, you cannot refuse that request if the request was made while that team either had player control of the ball or the ball was dead.



[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 11:26 AM]

[Nu1]

Thanks for the input. As always, I get good info. here. So, I've locked up my position on telling the coaches when they're out of timeouts. As per rule 2-11-6, I'll tell the coaches they are out.

Now, as far as granting that timeout that doesn't exist...that's another thing to add to my pregame. I'd rather be the trail - closer to the coach - and be able to verify verbally, "You want a timeout?", before I give it...if I can. That way when he says, "Yes!", and he gets it...along with the T...he can't say, "Oh, no! You misunderstood me." That would be better than trying to look through the players...in a noisy gym...to the coach who I think is making the timeout signal.

[jeffpea]

My best advice is to give the coach "one chance" to request a TO that he doesn't have - then grant him the TO if he asks again.

Here's what I mean: I can easily "not see" or "not hear" his initial request; but if he is persistent in wanting it - aka asking a 2nd or 3rd time - THEN I'm going to grant it. I can't avoid the TO if everyone in the gym sees/knows that he wants the TO.

It is not appropriate for me to deny the other team the advantage gained by that situation. I can "help" a little - but not too much.

[crazy voyager]

stop callings time outs during play and you wont have to bother...