Let me get this right. Are you saying that if B1 has LGP, reaches for the ball, clubs A1 across the arm but doesn't get the ball out, you've got nothing because there was no advantage? I just want to understand what you're saying.

Depends on what A1 does / is doing / keeps doing. Also depends on the meaning of the word "clubs."

I've called this a foul, and I've let it go. IN general, if A1 is just holding the ball, then I'll let the first contact go if it's relatively minor. If B1 does it again, or if it's significant contact (maybe what you meant by "clubs"), I'll get it.

"Clubs?" No, If he hits him that hard, he's probably moved his arm significantly. Or, as they say, this becomes one of the obvious you need to call. :)
I'm talking about a slight brush as B1 reaches across or from behind. SamIAm wants to call it if there's any contact whatsoever. I want to know why contact on a reach is more of a foul than contact in any other situation.

OK. I can live with that.

And I want to know why contact by the offensive player holding the defenders arm is a foul on the friggin defender!!

And I still can't understand why A1, with the ball, would hold onto B1 like that. Or how it would be impossible for B1 to shake loose...but I'll play along...

...is it possible that when B1 reached in under A1's arm he fouled A1?

Nope...violates the very laws which hold our universe together. Couldn't possibly have happened...well, at least not according to the OP...

Me too.....

And I don't find out, heads will roll!

I always thought it was kind of a good idea to call the foul on the player doing the holding, not the player being held.

Btw, Rock, in about 2-3 rule books in a row, they had a POE on Post Play. From the 2003-04 book:
<b>POE 2 C Post Play:</b> <i>The offense can "shape up" to receive a pass or to force the defense to deply or assume a legal guarding position at the side, in front or <b>behind</b> the offensive post player. When the offensive post player then uses the "swim stroke", pushes, <b>pins</b>, elbows, forearms, <b>holds</b>, clears with the body or just generally demonstrates rough physical movement or tactics, this is a foul on the offensive player and must be called.</i>

And don't get me started about that offensive pass interference call that wiped out that touchdown either. Remember that one?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 24th, 2006 at 01:02 PM]

Arrrrrgggghhhhh...where's the picture of the little kid, Dan? I need it!!

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/b4.gif
Is that the one, ol' buddy?

LOL. . .that was mine! Here you go:

http://www.2elevate.com/sweden/dinne...%20I%20get.jpg

http://www.2elevate.com/sweden/dinne...%20I%20get.jpg

http://io2.steelers.com/MediaContent...mauf_62903.jpg

Or, is this the one?

Ooh, good point. I might even have an intentional foul on A1 now. Thanks, Dan.

If that works for ya make sure you make it an intentional T.

You missed the whole point. B1 DID'T contact A1's arms...at all. A1 made the contact. Can't be a foul on B1.