I'm interested to hear how people handle the "no timeouts left" situations in games. Specifically how you handle informing coaches of their timeouts - or not informing them - and then how you handle it when a coach wants a timeout he/she doesn't have.

I saw a boys varsity coach request a timeout he didn't have. He knew he didn't and he wanted it anyway. It was during the course of play and one official looked at him and shook his head "no" to tell him, "you don't have any." The other official (new trail, right in front of the coach) looked at the coach, who was still signalling for the timeout, and gave it to him...along with the T.

I had a situation last night. Granted, it was 6th grade girls, but I could easily come across this at higher levels and want to get a better handle on how I would / should handle it. Here is the scenario...

During a timeout the clock operator (seated between the official/home score keeper and the away score keeper) tells my partner and I both teams are out of timeouts. (Neither my partner nor I tell either coach.)

Play resumes and Team A (home), down 2 points, gets possession of the ball in their backcourt with 20 seconds left in the game. As we move into Team A's frontcourt, I am the new Lead - across from the team benches. I see the coach for Team A jumping up and down signalling for a timeout just as player A1 is setting up to take a three point shot. I ignore the timeout request thinking he doesn't have any timeouts and not wanting to have to issue the T in that situation. The girl misses the 3, team B rebounds, team A fouls. My partner tells the coach he didn't have any timeouts left and he seems surprised, but is okay with the explanation as to why we didn't give him the TO.

So, any specific criticism on how I handled the situation is welcomed. But also, in general, how do you handle timeout counts?
Do you tell the coaches, "You've got one left," or "You've got no timeouts."? (I've heard some people tell me - "Don't tell them anything. What if you're wrong? It's not your job to tell them." Others seem to say it's good game management to let them know.)
If you don't tell the coaches, but you've been told by the table that they don't have any timeouts, do you ignore their request in a tight game...a blow out...does it matter? Do you just give them the timeout whenever they request it no matter the circumstances?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

As a matter of courtesy, I attempt to inform a bench when they have used their last time out. Sometimes they are too busy with thier huddle to hear or pay attention to me - that is their problem.

If a coach wants a TO when I know he has none, I have been known to look the other way when granting the TO makes no sense from a coaching stand point (being in possession of a live ball). I have granted a TO also when I felt the coach wanted to "buy it" with a T. It is my feelings most refs are cognizant of the coaches and would attempt to understand what the really coach wants.

When they have used their last timeout, I let me know after the timeout is used up. By the time that I know it's their last, the HC is already talking to his players. Never interrupt that conversation unless you are prepared to reset the timeout to it's full length.


Coaches have as many timeouts as they want. After the allotted (sp?) timeouts of 3 fulls and 2 30s, each granted timeout is penalized with a technical foul. That's right out of the Fed book. You do nothing different. However, I would tell the coach that that timeout will haveto be penalized, and I tell him/her this before the timeout begins. He has that right to tell his team that they are on defense.

1st official had a brain fart, 2nd official didn't. I think you knew that though. :)

By rule, it should be granted, along with the T. If the opposing sees you ignoring the request, he could be rightfully peaved. This is game awareness. When I know a team has no timeouts left, I make sure that I don't miss anything on the court. ;)

Some might say that you can ignore the request because it is only 6th grade girls, etc.... and there are more important things than granting a TO that may hav ebeen requested just as A released the ball. :)

I let the table keep track of timeouts. I definitely tell the coaches when they're out of timeouts. If they've used a few timeouts in a short amount of time, I will quietly remind them that they've used x timeouts so far.

I believe it is good game management to communicate where it's warranted - when they are of TOs and when they've used a few in a short amount of time. Perhaps at other times too, but those times are part of the 10 of the 90/10 rule.

The table telling the coaches they are out of timeouts has no bearing on my calling the game. Ultimately, it is the team's responsibility to know how many TOs they have left. A coach has reason to be upset if you deliberately ignore his request. Just grant it.

WOW. This happened last night in a HS playoff game. Team A with about 3 minutes left calls a time out. I was certain I watched one of the officials signal to Coach A , and a fellow official, that Team A had 1 time out left. Down to 5 seconds.. Team A down by 3...Team A #20 calls a time out. Official grants time out, THEN scorer tells the officials they had none left. Team B gets 2 free throws and ball and runs out clock.
I was discussing this with a veteran official. My feeling is you have a head coach, and this team had 3 assistants. So there were potentially 4 people who could keep track of time outs, and failed to do so. In that kind of a game (5A, very high level in Texas), don't the officials have enough going on to remember who has what time outs....which star player has 4 fouls so we don't foul him out with a cheapie, etc..
My friend's response was he gets both coaches together in the last few minutes, and tells them in front of each other how many time outs are left.

I can see both sides of this, and am interested in the discussion.

What is to discuss?

A requested an excessive TO. Officials handled it correctly. I think they missed a mechanic though.

As for getting the coaches together, I would never do that. Just tell em each by themselves.

I'm sorry...I was more interested in the game management aspect of who, and when, communicates with coaches about timeouts. I subscribe to the theory that I don't care if there are five left or none left, I'm not telling coaches how many time outs they have left. They can count to 5 by themselves.

Others have different ways of handling. I was looking for opinions.

This is interesting to me as some use the game situation to decide if they "notice" the coach asking for one they don't have (Ref in PA) and others would seem to grant the TO regardless (Juggling). I apologize if I mispoke for you two, but that's what I got from your posts. (With the exception of Juggling paying more attention to the floor as to not miss anything. :))

Again, you also have to decide if you're going to be the official who tells the coaches they have none left or the official who says, "Hey, they've got assistants. It's not my job." I lean toward the side of telling the coaches, but... My main concern is that I don't want to get bad info. (perhaps less likely at higher levels, but still...) and pass it on to the coach. Then, after I told him/her, "You've got one left!" they call it to find out they don't.

I wonder if informing them by saying, "The scorekeeper has you with 1 timeout. You can check it," relieves any responsibility on the refs (my) part. I don't want to be obsessive about it...but I also don't want to be part of a mess that I could have avoided somehow.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I tell them. The rule book (2-scorer) says something like "the score shall notify a team through the nearest official when a team has used its last allotted time out"

I believe our proper mechanic is to inform the coach when his timeout bucket is empty.

After that, if he wants it, he's gotta buy it.

You can give them this information as they break the huddle so as to give them all their time during the TO with their team.

Frank,

What game was this?

AS Bob Jenkins said, it's not a mechanic, it's a rule.

NFHS rule 2-11-6- "The scorer shall record the time-out information charged to each team(who and when) and notify a team and it's coach, <b>through an official</b>, whenever that team is granted it's final allotted charged time-out".

If the scorer doesn't do his job and inform the official so that the official can then notify the coach, well, that's too bad. It's a scorer's error- not a correctible error.

Case book play 10.1.7 covers the second part of the play explicitly:
<b>10.1.7SITUATION:</b> A1 requests and team A is granted a time-out late in the fourth quarter. Team A has already used it's three 60-second time-outs and it's two 30-second timeouts.
<b>RULING:</b> Team A is granted the time-out and is charged with a technical foul. No indirect foul is called to the head coach.

If a player/head coach asks for a time-out, you cannot refuse that request if the request was made while that team either had player control of the ball or the ball was dead.



[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 11:26 AM]

Thanks for the input. As always, I get good info. here. So, I've locked up my position on telling the coaches when they're out of timeouts. As per rule 2-11-6, I'll tell the coaches they are out.

Now, as far as granting that timeout that doesn't exist...that's another thing to add to my pregame. I'd rather be the trail - closer to the coach - and be able to verify verbally, "You want a timeout?", before I give it...if I can. That way when he says, "Yes!", and he gets it...along with the T...he can't say, "Oh, no! You misunderstood me." That would be better than trying to look through the players...in a noisy gym...to the coach who I think is making the timeout signal. :)

My best advice is to give the coach "one chance" to request a TO that he doesn't have - then grant him the TO if he asks again.

Here's what I mean: I can easily "not see" or "not hear" his initial request; but if he is persistent in wanting it - aka asking a 2nd or 3rd time - THEN I'm going to grant it. I can't avoid the TO if everyone in the gym sees/knows that he wants the TO.

It is not appropriate for me to deny the other team the advantage gained by that situation. I can "help" a little - but not too much.

stop callings time outs during play and you wont have to bother...;)

Check in the section as to score keeper's duties. The score keeper shall inform both teams through an official that they are out of time outs. When the scorekeeper tells you that a team is out, you tell the coach. Any other communication before that about time outs is a courtesy.

Good Game Management menas you should know the time outs. If you dont know then ask.

I always verify the number of time outs remaining at a time out near the end of the game. It is a courtesy to let them know but knowing how many time outs a team has left in the last 3-5 minutes of the game helps you officiate.

If it is a close game, (at the end) at almost every time out I make sure we have the score right, the number of time outs, if not in double bonus I verify how many team fouls, and verify arrow.

You can also give this information to an assistant coach standing near the huddle.

Since I can't perform the rule, but I am able to conduct the coinciding mechanic, I suppose that's what I'll continue to do. Thanks for your help though. Actually I think we're saying the same thing in a different way.

I like to tell the coach (head or assistant) when he/she has one and no time-outs. I think its just good game management. However.......

The worst HS game I ever had the displeasure to be a part of involved a "number-of-time-outs-left" fiasco. It involved two horrible, horrible small town girls teams...if we had called every foul and violation we would still be there. Somehow, however, we came down to the last 10 seconds or so with the visitors ahead by 2 points and the home team with the ball. About 2 game minutes earlier, the home team took a timeout, and after conferring with the scorekeeper, I told the home team coach (and my partners) that she no timeouts left. She acknowledged my notfication. Now, with 10 seconds left, home team calls a timeout. One of my partners reports the TO and I'm quietly rejoicing the pending "T" because it means we're finally going to get out of this little corner of hell. But instead he goes to his spot on the floor. I go to the table to confirm with the scorer the home team TO count; the visiting coach is watching my conversation closely because he had heard me tell the other coach earlier that she had no timeouts left. The scorer (she was maybe 15 and this seemed to be perhaps the second b-ball game she had ever seen in her life) in this tiny little backwoods Florida panhandle gym told me that the home team did indeed have a timeout left, that she must have miscounted when I asked earlier. I asked the visitor's scorer what she had, and SHE HAD NO IDEA. My partners and I talked it over and decided we had to go with the official book and granted the TO. Surprisingly, the visiting coach took it pretty well. Amazingly he had his s*** together despite the completely inept team he was cursed to coach. Fortunately the home team held true to form and turned the ball over almost immediately after the ensuing throw in, and by that point it would have taken a coroner's inquest for any of us to even consider calling a foul. BTW, we needed a police escort to the parking lot after this disaster.

Sorry for the long post, but the moral of this story is make sure you can trust the scorekeeper before you pass pertinent data to coaches.

There are a few schools where I work at that have time-outs remaining on the main scoreboard--a huge asset. I always make it a point to tell the visiting coach about that before the game. If the board doesn't have it I usually will wait until half way or so thru the 4th quarter and check with the table and then inform coaches as to how many they have left. Or if it seems they're running out before then I'll let them know. If they still call one with none left then their deaf or dumb

I regularly check the timeouts and inform the coaches when they are out. However, I do find it rather ironic that a lot of the small school/lower level coaches who are constantly whining about "3 seconds" and the five count can't even count to 5 themselves when it comes to timeouts.

Again, this is an issue that doesn't arise in FIBA rules.

Article 18.3.1 states that:
"Only a coach or assistant coach has the right to request a charged time-out. He shall establish visual contact with the scorekeeper or he shall go to the scorer’s table and ask clearly for a time-out, making the proper conventional sign with his hands."

So if a coach requests a time-out and they have no time outs left, the scorebench should inform them of this. Unlike NCAA/NFHS a coach can't "buy" a time-out with a technical foul.

That's an area were FIBA is ahead of the us, the rule of not calling TO's during play is really good, makes life a lot easier for us referees.

In our local kids rec league, we inform a coach when they have used their final allotted timeout that they are out of timeouts. If that team requests another one, they get it with the T. We do not inform them when they have one left, only when they are out.

It is the coach's responsiblity to inform their team of the situation. Two weeks ago, a team was out of timeouts, one of their players was "caught" in a corner with the ball and requested a timeout. My partner had to grant it and assess the T. It's too bad, because otherwise, it was a smart play by an 8th grade kid.

I use the courtesy. In a close game in the last few minutes, when a TO is taken, I check with the scorekeeper as to how many are left for each team. After the TO, I inform both teams as to what they have left. I have never had a TO requested when there were none left.

Where's the fun in that? :confused:

As a matter of course...
 

especially in tight games, the crew starts checking to see how many TOs are left and inform each team (head or asst coach). We do this at the end of each half (there are only 3 schools in our area where remaining TOs are tracked on the scoreboard). We find this policy helps us out tremendously with game management. The coaches appreciate the help and it helps us avoid some ugly situations in tighter games.

Re: As a matter of course...
 

Just curious - have you had situations where the scoreboard was incorrect on the number remaining and, for instance, a coach thought he had one left but didn't? What would you do? I know the proper thing is to check so that doesn't happen, but has it ever happened to you?

Also, is there a reason you inform the coach of timeouts left at the end of the second half as you state above? ;)

Re: Re: As a matter of course...
 

I am following what our association recommends we do, or, does as matter of practice. I believe it is to help with game management: to avoid the problems of inadvertantly taking timeouts and drawing Ts, keep good relations with coaches, etc. The referee does this in all of our games and is welcomed by the teams. I have only had a few games where they keep them on the scoreboard, and we did check to ensure it was consistent with the book. I have never had a discrepancy on timeouts. However, we have had a discrepancy with fouls before.

Re: Re: As a matter of course...
 

We just had a case in Eastern Mass where a team was charged with a technical for taking a timeout it didn't have when in fact (video review, after the fact) the team had 2(!) left. It had a slightly crazy etiology. The home team was the visitors for this particular game - and the scorers were not seated next to each other. The 'visitor's' scorekeeper was the home scorer - and quite possibly the officials were looking at the wrong scorer when reporting things. Confusion ensued . . .

I hope officials are not interposing their own judgment as to whether or not a timeout should be granted if the request comes during a live ball.

Drawing on the bag of family tricks I'm proud to say, one of my children was faced with going back out on the floor from his team's last timeout, instructed by the coach not to call one. His team, Team A, was down 5 with 12 seconds to go. They shot a 3, now down 2, but by the time B1 saunters out of bounds with the ball and the official begins his count, there's 4 seconds left. My son requests a timeout and it's granted. Now they're down 2 with 3 seconds left. Team B makes 1 of 2 technical foul shots, up 3, and goes to inbound the ball at halfcourt opposite the table. Team A plays finest kind of defense and Team B throws the inbounds pass out of bounds on the other side of the court. Team A inbounds and . . . misses the 3, but they got a good look and had a chance, because the official did not hesitate to grant to request for timeout.

Well, I would hope that officials know enough to apply the proper <b>rule</b> as to whether or not a time-out should be granted if that request comes during a live ball. There's really no judgement involved.

Unfortunately, the official in your game screwed up big-time anyway. You can't grant a time-out request if the ball is live and in the thrower's hands. You simply just ignore the request. That's rule 5-8-3. The ball was not in control of or at the disposal of your son's team, and it was live. You can't grant a TO request to the scoring team under those circumstances. The official should have just stood there and let the last 4 seconds of the game run off the clock.

OK, so I never met Chris Webber.

Right. Thanks. I mis-stated it in quickly retelling it. The other team had not gotten the ball at their disposal when the time out was requested.



[Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 28th, 2006 at 01:03 AM]

It had been eight seconds already and still the ball was not at the disposal of the throwing team? That is big problem.

In NCAA games the clock stops on made goals in the final minute just so teams cannot waste time in this manner. In NFHS games the officials must be diligent and either start a five second count quickly or blow the whistle to stop the clock and get the ball to the throwing team. The scoring team shouldn't lose many seconds while the opponent fools around.

Oh God.

No, 8 seconds didn't go by. By the time they shot the 3 there was considerably less time left. The official was a good Ivy League official, for 20 years the interpreter on one of our larger boards.

The point of the whole thing is that, in my view, officials shouldn't be thinking about whether or not to grant a request for timeout with the ball alive - not to mention the clock running. Maybe, sometimes, if there's some confusion during a dead ball with the clocked stopped - bad info from the table about how many time outs remain - one could say "Do you want that timeout?" But, otherwise, don't mess with the game.

Your description surely didn't make that clear...it sounded like the shot occurred at 12 seconds. :(

I agree, I didn't make it clear.

I NEVER tell a coach how many timeouts they have left. I tell them "The Table says you have X number of TOs left." That way, if there is a misunderstanding, its not on me. It is however good game management to make sure the coach and you understand when they are out of time outs. That way, if they then ask for one, the administration of the subsequent T is clean.