I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was watching a high school boy’s team playing in a district high school looser out game.

During the game this one official seemed to be calling a different game (3 man). As I am watching the game, I notice this official looking up in the stands during a time out or while he was the C during free throws or other times when the action was slow. This guy has a buddy in the stands sitting above the table. This buddy is giving him gestures and hand signals on what to call on the floor. I observed his buddy give an elbows out in front type signal, very next whistle, illegal screen. Same thing for 3 seconds and other calls. The thing that sent me over the edge was when this official mocked his partner’s calls on the floor with his buddy in the stands. It was obvious that He was non supportive and show boating.

At first I was simply amazed at what I saw but then the more I thought about it the more it bothers me. It was unprofessional to say the least and disrespectful to his partners, players and everyone involved in this district tournament.

What do u think about this? How would you handle a situation like this if you were one of the guys officiating with him, or observed this as I did?

How in the hell would I know what was going on in the stands when I am officiating the game? I am sure things that took place did not look very good, but I know if I am concentrating on the game how I can see what my friend is doing in the stands. I was working a Sophomore B/JV double header yesterday morning and there was a mom in the stands that was really hot. I could not even pay as much attention to her as I did on the court and there were only 20 people in the stands. I was more concerned with the game. Now you are saying this was a playoff game (or at least that is how it sounded) and you want us to believe that an official was watching his friend instead of calling the game properly?

It sounds to me like you were trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Peace

Well he wasn't accusing YOU, JRut. Don't be so defensive. :rolleyes:

Maybe something fishy was going on. I've seen unprofessional refs before. But I don't think any of us can comment to what you saw. HTBT.

If only we had the tape of the game...or better yet been there. No Comment.

Hmmm...someone from SW Washington talking about an official in a district tournament... (And I see by your profile that you are a teacher - where do you teach?) My guess would be that the official in question and his buddies were from the Lower Columbia Association??? If so, let it go - there's nothing you can do about it...they have been like that for years and it's not going to change. If the officials were from the Evergreen Association, let me know and I will take it up with the Board here and we'll see what happens...

Who said I was commenting about me? I think you need to lighten up man.

The story does not make any sense. We are supposed to believe that an official was paying so much attention to some guy in the stands and made every call based on what that person in the stands was doing, as compared to what they saw on the court? This is not about being defensive about anything. This is thinking someone is overreacting to something that did not actually happen.

Peace

The obvious answer would be to go up and sit next to him after the first quarter and distract the heck out of him so he couldn't send out signals.

Mountain out of molehill??
 

Funny.............. Yeah man I have nothing better to do than make things like this up. I was sitting next to parents that saw this going on. One of the officials wives saw this stuff too.

J you find nothing wrong with this? Doesn't make any sense?
J read the post again!

To all the others........thanks for your comments.

And thus the reason why several of us do lower level rec games. Fringe benefits.

One of the concerns I have in Iowa with going 3 man in the tournaments is working with 2 officials you don't know. I feel that in 3 man, even more so than 2, it is difficult to build consistency in a game with officials you haven't worked with. I can see where this might be a problem. We haven't heard from the state as to how officials will be assigned, ie as crews or individuals (this is nothing new). Any thoughts on this from states that do use 3?

It hasn't been an issue in our state. With 3 officials, our games are called much better and there is great comraderie and teammwork between the crews. Three against the world is better than two against the world.

Z

Re: Mountain out of molehill??
 

First of all you have concluded that both individuals are working together without any solid evidence. Not sure how that is possible as you claim it is. All you have is a friend in the stands making gestures from the stands.

What does the official on the floor have to do with the gestures of a friend/buddy in the stands?

I would agree that if his friend is an official his antics would not be the display of the best behavior from an official.

All I could decipher from your post is a guy in the stands acting out and he happens to be a friend to one of the officials. Because you think the calls were influenced is just an assumption right now. Unless they have talked about it to other people and you know for sure that actually took place, I am not sure the outrage on your part. All I ever do when I officiate is focus on the floor. I find it hard to believe someone is that in tune to the stands and officiating at the same time.

Peace

Yeah, but that's because we're all such nice people out here in the Pacific Northwest! We don't have any grumpy old guys (coughJRcough)out here to make us all grumpy. Buy your partners a latte at the nearsest Starbucks (one on every corner)and you are all friends for life!!

You're so right Rocky, especially down in your part of the state. But I have to admit, your custom down there of having the referee giving hot oil massages to his partners before the game has me a little weirded out. :D

Z

Just my 1 1/2 cents - I usually have no problem working with people I hadn't worked with before. Maybe it comes from working enough 3-person with different partners, but that's where "trust your partners" really comes into play, along with a good pre-game. If you are all on the same page, from areas of coverage to how "tight" or "loose" the game will be called, then it shouldn't matter who your partners are.

The first year IL went to 3-person in the post-season, I found out I was working with one guy who had never worked a 3-person game in his life. This 1st round playoff game was his first ever 3-person game. He happened to be riding with our 3rd, who I knew, so he got a crash course on the way to the game, as well as a thorough pre-game. We got through it with no major problems, but it did make the game a little uncomfortable. I can see that as a problem once a state initially moves from 2-person to 3. But as it becomes more prevalent, there should be less problems as time goes on.

If you are all trained the same basic way, it should never be a problem to work with people you do not know. During the season most of my games I tend to work with people that I have never met, let alone worked with previously. This is why you have a pre-game and be as knowledgably about the proper mechanics and coverages.

Peace

No, no, no...it's the U-2's job to give the massages. And that's only after the 5th time you've worked a regional or state game with one of us...

You've hit on a big concern. Right now, there are only two conferences in the state that have 3 man crews exclusively (I worked in one this season and next season half of my schedule is split between the 2). Most of the people at the state level have not worked a lot of 3 man themselves and are not as well prepared to teach 3 man mechanics. The people in the state that know 3 man well, are the college guys and they often aren't involved in the training. With different crews this season I worked HS, Men's college, and women's college mechanics just to blend in with the crew. This is fine with me as I have aspirations of working the college game and go work college mechanics at camps, but for the guys new to 3 man, it's going to be really ugly for a few years I fear. I can't tell you how glad I am we're going 3, but there are going to be some really interesting tournament games next season, just because of officiating changes.

Your state needs to take on a training program not very different than what our state did. In Illinois they required all officials to attend camps as a requirement for their license. Also because our state went to 3 Person all playoff games, conferences realized they had to allow more 3 Person games in their conferences in order to get used to the change and help officials get used to the change. Illinois standardized many procedures and practices that are taught from one end of the state to another. Also it is required that all officials that want to work post season must attend a 3 Person camp where the officials work games on the floor. Also our state licensed clinicians registered with the state that were the only ones responsible for making sure these camps were teaching the same things. So what tends to happen is when guys work together that have never met, they are starting from similar understanding of the mechanics. Of course there were growing pains for the first couple years, but now I can watch games all over the place and see proper coverages and a very good understanding of all the mechanics. Just like anything there are people you understand better than others, but the mistakes are minor and things that can be taught. Also as a board member of one of my associations our group does a lot of reinforcing of the mechanics and procedures with camps and during meetings. This is also typical of other groups in our state as well. We are constantly beating officials over the head with information and policies that the IHSA wants us to cover. So when the playoffs officials are very well versed in 3 Person that it is like riding a bike. Of course there are differences in philosophy and minor issues, but nothing your a pre-game cannot overcome.

Peace

Re: Re: Mountain out of molehill??
 

yes man his buddy in the stands is an official from his association, they came to the game together. His calls on the floor were influenced by his buddy in the stands making gestures on what to look for during the game. This guy was also mocking the other 2 guys calls during the game.

I aggree with you. I too would never focus one wut someone in the stands is doing. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.