I'd like to revisit this situation. Here is the original post
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24704

Our interpreter sums it up like this:

The score is A63- B62 with three seconds on the clock. The 1st free throw is missed, B1 grabs the rebound dribbles to mid court, fires up a shot which enters the basket. The official signals good basket and proceeds to exit the court as it is apparent that B won the game on the made basket 65-63. NOT SO FAST>>>>>> on the way out the A coach stops one of the officials informing him that is was a 2 shot foul and that they didn't take the second shot. Officials disallowed the goal, put back three seconds on the clock and proceeded from there. A did not make their second attempt and B's second attempt at a 3 pt shot failed and now they lost the game. The officials were wrong.

His reasoning:

Let's look at a couple of scenarios.

1) IF there was more then three seconds on the clock. If the referee signaled 1 and 1 but after the first successful foul shot allowed the ball to be put in play by B and B scored. At this point the officials become aware of their error and now allow A to take the second free throw. NO ONE ON THE FOUL LANE and After the attempt bring it back to the point of interruption for a throw in on the end line by team A. They can run the end line. THE BASKET THAT B SCORED COUNTS .

This is correct procedure in this case because we had time left to the game.

2. ( TO THE TOP SITUATION where time expired.) If the referee signaled two shots, even though the ball is dead after the 1st of multiple free throws after it appears the shot is not good, the referees by allowing the play to continue in essence allowed the ball to become live, therefore the shot should have counted and the game would have ended....Whether or not the official chopped in the clock would be of no consequence since they allowed the clock to start and play to continue....the officials could have stopped the play immediately after the rebound and not have let the play continue, BUT by allowing the ball to be pushed up the court, the shot taken and signal good, they in essence allowed the ball to become live.....NO SECOND SHOT for team A because it would not make a difference in the score of the game and the game clock had expired.

Something doesn't sound right to me. The ball becomes "live" even though the officials signalled two shots?

Rainmaker's answer and reasoning in the linked thread was correct- as everyone else here also concurred in that thread.

Rule 2-10-5 is the relevant rule used-- i.e. "points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error shall <b>not</b> be nullified".

Rule 2-10-6 is not applicable because there was a change of team possession.

The officials erred in not awarding a merited free throw throw. They can correct that. They also erred in allowing the play to continue from the missed first FT. They can't correct that one; unfortunately, there's no rules provision to do so.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 15th, 2006 at 04:07 PM]

Nice to know that your interpreter agrees with our ruling. Does he read the forum, too? ;)

I'd still like to know how the ball became "live" on that play? As far as I can tell, the player grabbed a dead ball and ran down and threw up a prayer. I think someone else in the original thread may have made the same point. I just don't see how throwing up a dead ball can be counted as a basketball, no matter when the whistle may have blown.

One other thing to note...Nowhere in the story or any of the posts does it say that the clock started or the final horn sounded or anything like that.

The ball was live as soon as the FT shooter got it from the administering official, as per rule 6-1-2(c). Because of the official's error in not blowing it dead when the FT was missed, it remained live throughout the rebound and the subsequent shot.

The error made was that the official(s) didn't blow the ball <b>dead</b> when they should have. Unfortunately, there is no rule extant to cover an <b>official's</b> error in that situation. If the timer had started the clock even though the official had blown the whistle or signalled the ball was dead, then maybe you coulda called it a timer's mistake and corrected it that way. You can't correct it though if the official mistakenly started the clock, or if he allowed the clock to start.

Make a little more sense now?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 15th, 2006 at 09:09 PM]

I think it has to be pretty much assumed as such if the official signalled the basket as good, and then all the officials started to run off the floor.

Just to throw a little more messiness into this...
I recall that this happened in an NCAA game a year or two ago involving Georgetown.

The officials mistakenly allowed the ball to remain live following the first of two FTs by the opponent and Georgetown rebounded and dribbled up into the frontcourt.

The error was recognized at this time and play was stopped with a whistle. The officials reset the clock, nullified the rebound and possession, and continued the game with the administration of the 2nd FT.


I wish that I remembered more than that this was a national TV game. I don't recall if this was a Big East game or a nonconference matchup with Duke, UNC, UCLA, or somebody.

Just thought that I would share that since it happened to the big boys. I still don't agree with how they handled it, but I don't work D1.

Huh? There was a FT to follow and the ball remained live simply b/c there was no whistle? The ball becomes dead in that situation as soon as it is clear that the try will not be successful. If there is another FT to follow, no whistle is required for the ball to be dead. In fact, if I remember my basketball fundamentals, the whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead.

In the story, the official says he crossed half court to inform the coach that something was wrong and they were gonna fix it. I'm not going back to read it again, but I seem to recall him even say something to the effect of "No one was leaving the floor."

And what Chuck said above is exactly what I was thinking as I read your reply. You don't have to have a whistle for the ball to become dead. The shot was missed, the ball was dead, whistle or no whistle.

I don't have my books with me, but from the online rulebook at NFHS.ORG, we see that:

Rule 6-7-2-a -- The becomes dead, or remains dead, when it is apparent the free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw.

So, no one wants to say these guys screwed this up anymore?

You're wrong. The ball remained alive because of the official's error in letting play continue. See case book play 2.10.1SitB. It uses the exact same concept, Chuck. Note the part of the RULING that says "Since the ball remained in play on the missed free throw, the clock started and the ball became <b>dead</b> when the goal was scored".

OK, Whistles&Stripes?

I know that, JR. But I think it goes againsts the basketball fundamentals. The ball <s>is</s> should be dead when the try misses. The fact that there was no whistle should be irrelevant.

I don't agree.

What if this happens at the start of a game but is not caught until half time?

According to the way you see it we would then go back to the dead ball immediately prior to the error & replay everything from there.

According to the case play we can't do that.

Well, now you get into the issue of did BOTH teams actively seek the rebound? If the shooting team players on the lane line just stood there because it was two shots, isn't that unfair??? Isn't there a case that addresses that?

There's a case play that addresses the opposite situation (I think it's the opposite -- I've lost track). IF "everyone" plays on, the ball's live. IF only "one" player is awake, it's a mistake and can be corrected.

I'd apply the same logic here.

Be that as it may.....

It still makes no nevermind, Chuck.

Rules rulez.....whether we personally agree with 'em or not. That case play sureasheck ain't too much different than the actual play in the first post imo.

A slightly different view...
 

As my refereeing experience is based on FIBA rules, some may disagree with me, but...
All the rules reffered to in this case are identical to FIBA rules, including those on live ball, dead ball, and correctable errors.
Looking at the facts, we can easily agree that there should be 2 free throws. For whatever reason, player took a rebound after the first shot, and one must admit that at that point the officials have FUBAR-ed the game (the term is purely technical in this part of the world, it stands for ****ed Up Beyond Any Recognition; the origins go back to the yet unpublished book titled "Bush legacy to the world").
Sorry for that digression. Anyway, the fact remains that the ball was DEAD after the free throw was missed. Any play following this free throw is null and void, just as it would be if the same referees were actually aware of the game situation, and did not run down the court and called the shot good.

didn't read all the posts but...
 

I haven't read all the posts, but I was involved in a correctable error situation last week in a JuCo Men's game.

We caught the problem immediately and properly administered the correctable error rule (wrong shooter), so there was no affect at all on the game, except our evaluator wasn't too impress with us for letting situation happen in the first place. It definitely negatively influenced his over-all impression of us a crew (and who could blame him).

This situation caused me to thoroughly peruse the NCAA Correctable Error rule (also check out latest edition of Referee Mag) and it really hit me in the head that you never, ever want to put yourself in a correctable error situation. A team can really get screwed by our carelessness.

Bottomline, we need to practice the requisite game management skills that would preclude us from ever haven't to enforce the Correctable Error rule.