Illegal/legal sub.

[Bart Tyson]

Last night I worked a HS game. During our pregame talk, the coach presented us with a situation during his last game. Team A is at the FT line for a 3 shot foul. A1 shoots the 1st FT. B6 then subs for B5. The substitution is complete. i.e. B5 is now sitting on the bench. The officials then assess a T-foul for illegal substitution. Then they shoot the T, then continue with POI. My thoughts: If the officials saw this happening, then they should have stopped it when the player started to come on the court. Assuming they didn't see it as it was happening, then are we able to rule the player legal sense they didn't catch it at the time it happened?

[Edited by Bart Tyson on Feb 15th, 2006 at 01:43 PM]

[WhistlesAndStripes]

If the sub entered without being beckoned and the player left to go sit, sounds like a pretty simple whack to me. I don't know why you mention any Point of Emphasis on this situation though. THe player at the line should have shot his last 2 FTs with the lane cleared. Then he or a teammate attempts the 2 shots for the technical, and then they get the ball at the division line opposite the table for a throwin.

[Bart Tyson]

Sorry, I should have typed POI.

[Snake~eyes]

T if the officials didn't notice until after the fact but officials should use prevenative officiating and debeckonize the incoming sub.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Last night I worked a HS game.

Team A is at the FT line for a 3 shot foul. A1 shoots the 1st FT. B6 then subs for B5. The substitution is complete. i.e. B5 is now sitting on the bench. The officials then assess a T-foul for illegal substitution. Then they shoot the T, then continue with POI.

Coupla things.....

1)Under FED rules, you don't go back to the POI. You penalize everything in the order that they occur. A1 would get his next 2 FT's with no one on the lanes. Then any team A player(s) would shoot the 2 FT's for the "T" charged to B6, followed by an A throw-in at center. The POI was A1 shooting 2 FT's with the lanes filled. No biggie- same outcome but proper rules verbiage.

2) Interesting note...that "T" couldn't be called if B6 was on the court(substitution complete-B5 off) and you then gave A1 the ball for his second FT. Once the ball became live, you can longer penalize the illegal substitution.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
2) Interesting note...that "T" couldn't be called if B6 was on the court(substitution complete-B5 off) and you then gave A1 the ball for his second FT. Once the ball became live, you can longer penalize the illegal substitution.

Why not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

Why not?

Rule 10-2PENALTY-- "Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live". The clock doesn't have to start; just the ball becoming live ends the penalty phase. And....as you know, the ball becomes live when it's at the disposal of the FT shooter.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule 10-2PENALTY-- "Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live". The clock doesn't have to start; just the ball becoming live ends the penalty phase. And....as you know, the ball becomes live when it's at the disposal of the FT shooter.

Thank you.