Go ahead, shame me....

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by lmeadski

The logical assumption in your statement is that the refs have first responsibility for rough play, coaches second (...responsibility falls to the coaches). Hhhhmmmmmm.

Regardless of what you infer we can agree that you didn't live up to your own responsibilities in this case.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by lmeadski
[/B]

Coaches and players have first and full responsibility for how kids play. Referees are in position to INFLUENCE how the kids play and how the coaches act by enforcing the rules. If the coaches and players continue their aggressive play, rule enforcement will amply penalize them: bonus, double bonus, flagrant fouls and maybe technicals. [/B][/QUOTE]Exactly.

And the officials enforce the rules using their judgment as to whether a foul actually occurred or there was incidental contact. Officials do not call fouls using a coach's judgment. Somehow, I don't think that process would really work, no matter how much you advocate it.

The bottom line still remains that the players you're dealing with are unskilled, pre-teenage kids. And maybe you're also dealing with newer, unskilled officials also. I can't say that with certainty however; I never saw the officials. Until then, they get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Let it go. It's done; it's over; ain't anybody gonna come along and commit CPR on that game and bring it back to life either. Onwards and upwards....

[lmeadski]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Regardless of what you infer we can agree that you didn't live up to your own responsibilities in this case.

Yes, my logical inference from your stated premise. And, I agree that, as a ref, I should not have drawn a T in a game. That was never at question here Danno. I may have shirked my responsibilities as a ref (even though I wasn't reffing) but I did not shirk my responsiblities to my players.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 14th, 2006 at 12:57 PM]

[lmeadski]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Coaches and players have first and full responsibility for how kids play. Referees are in position to INFLUENCE how the kids play and how the coaches act by enforcing the rules. If the coaches and players continue their aggressive play, rule enforcement will amply penalize them: bonus, double bonus, flagrant fouls and maybe technicals. [/B]

Exactly.

And the officials enforce the rules using their judgment as to whether a foul actually occurred or there was incidental contact. Officials do not call fouls using a coach's judgment. Somehow, I don't think that process would really work, no matter how much you advocate it.

The bottom line still remains that the players you're dealing with are unskilled, pre-teenage kids. And maybe you're also dealing with newer, unskilled officials also. I can't say that with certainty however; I never saw the officials. Until then, they get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Let it go. It's done; it's over; ain't anybody gonna come along and commit CPR on that game and bring it back to life either. Onwards and upwards.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. Time to move on.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by lmeadski


Yes, my logical inference from your stated premise. And, I agree that, as a ref, I should not have drawn a T in a game. That was never at question here Danno.

Again, glad we can agree that as a coach you shirked your responsibilities, lmeadski-o

[Rich]

Originally posted by lmeadski

Gasp.....

Are you intimating that a coach might just possibly... maybe have the teeniest, weeniest, slightest, minisculest bit of responsibility for the way his kids actually play?

What a novel concept!

It'll never catch on though. It's always sooooooo much easier to blame the real culprits- the officials.

Cleopatra wasn't the only Queen of Denile. [/B]

Coaches and players have first and full responsibility for how kids play. Referees are in position to INFLUENCE how the kids play and how the coaches act by enforcing the rules. If the coaches and players continue their aggressive play, rule enforcement will amply penalize them: bonus, double bonus, flagrant fouls and maybe technicals. Continued non-compliance only hurts the offending team and it is their prerogative to act any way they choose. Denial is thinking that refs have no influence on a game. Of course we do, and, depending how tight or loose we call a game, undue influence. [/B][/QUOTE]

Having to deal with coaches like you is the reason I work nothing but varsity high school basketball and the occasional college game. I'd rather whack my head off a cement wall than call youth rec games these days. And that includes basketball, baseball, AND football.

There's no worse thing we can hear on a court than "I'm a ref, too" coming out of the mouth of one of the coaches. Guy coaches for 20 years but sends in $50 to the state and an open-book test (which he passes with a minimum score) and all of a sudden he's "one of us." That's the guy who's going to be the most trouble on the court, most of the time.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Coaches and players have first and full responsibility for how kids play. Referees are in position to INFLUENCE how the kids play and how the coaches act by enforcing the rules. If the coaches and players continue their aggressive play, rule enforcement will amply penalize them: bonus, double bonus, flagrant fouls and maybe technicals. [/B]

Exactly.

And the officials enforce the rules using their judgment as to whether a foul actually occurred or there was incidental contact. Officials do not call fouls using a coach's judgment. Somehow, I don't think that process would really work, no matter how much you advocate it.

The bottom line still remains that the players you're dealing with are unskilled, pre-teenage kids. And maybe you're also dealing with newer, unskilled officials also. I can't say that with certainty however; I never saw the officials. Until then, they get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Let it go. It's done; it's over; ain't anybody gonna come along and commit CPR on that game and bring it back to life either. Onwards and upwards.... [/B][/QUOTE]

But he's going to go hire officials that will call the game tighter -- in other words, the way he wants.

I hear this all the time in girls games, even at the varsity level. Parents complaining about girls "going to get hurt" when they dive on the floor after loose balls, etc. Amazing how those same parents only scream for fouls when they would be the beneficiary of the calls, though.

It takes no skill whatsoever to blow a whistle every time players are contacted. ANYONE can do that.