Whats up with refs being suspended for a game due to "T'S" given out in Duke/Florida game?

Didn't hear about it - details?

Just saw it on half time on espn. Trying to locate new article on it. They said refs were suspended for giving out unwarrented T. Replay showed two players chesting up and looked like trash talking.

Found an artcle on "sportingnews.com" States ACC suspended crew for T given to Alexander Johnson of FSU. It was his 5th
and FSU lost 97-96. Said T should not have been given.

Here is the article: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...uspended_x.htm

Also it was ESPN2 not ESPN. Sorry

The FSU player, Johnson, was called for an intentional foul after hard contact with Duke's Williams. When Williams got up he went afeter Johnson. Johnson tried to walk away but was whistled for the T which resulted in his 5th foul. I Have no idea what was said... Did the officails have the option to look at replay, or is that just for determining who was involved in a fight?

Man, talk about some pressure there. The replay shows Johnson trying to back off but he was in on the initial contact. Pretty soon we're going to have instant replay on all foul and violation calls.

I believe the league office set an email announcing the suspension that read as follows:

"We got your back. Not."

[Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 6th, 2006 at 11:28 PM]

This was PR based.

I would resign from a conference that pulled a stunt like this.

Wow, I saw the clip on Sportscenter, I can't believe they suspended them, that's just horrible.

I wish they'd suspend some refs for NOT giving Ts to certain players (or coaches) in certain situations.

Oh really? Are you sure about that?

Sure you would. That's bull$hit, and we all know it.

The T shouldn't have been called. They screwed up.

How can you be so sure unless you were right there and seen and heard what the Officials did? I reserve judgement until such time as I am in the same position as this crew.

Good post!

Sometimes it is funny to see commments that insinuate we (officials) are never wrong. It is even funnier when the person handing out the punishment was an official a year ago and some would think he could do no wrong. From the smallest to the biggest games, mistakes are made. This is just another mistake and some good could come out of it in the long run just like what started the whole use of the monitor.

What do you mean the same position? You have never had a player get upset and all up in another player's face? OR, are you saying it has to be Duke/Florida St.?

I have seen similar situations but not one identical to this crew faced. As I am sure, no one can say they have. Unless they were a part of that crew. I am not saying the suspension is justified or defending the Officiating crew I am simply saying unless you are in their shoes how can you pass judgement they screwed up. Did the Official heard an F bomb fly, was the player simply trying to just get a way after the hard foul. I don't know.

So what did you do in your similar situation?

If I'm not 100% sure, I'm not going to give a T.

I gotta believe all the details were considered and the crew fully consulted before the suspension was decided upon. Whether it was PR related or rightly deserved, we may never know. But hopefully the crew was listened to and the situation was fully discussed openly before the decision was made. Afterall, we get the same consideration and benefit from our assignors whenever a coach calls, don't we?

SmokeEater, The conference officials investigate a situation that they question. Part of that investigation involves asking the officials what the circumstances were.
The officials had no reason to whistle-up a T that was acceptable to the conference officials.

tomegun, I had a couple of kids banging chests together the other night, they were jawing at each other up and down the court. I gave them a quick warning to knock off the extra curriculars, which they ignored. Next time down they crash into each other. Double foul. Red team player turns and mouths the F sharp to the other kid, whack he got a T. I was close enough to see what he was saying but not to hear the word, didn't matter, to me he was instigating more. I reported the fouls and by the time I was done the Red coach had a sub for the kid and he never played the remainder of the game. 15-17yr old boys club ball. That was my situation. Did the kid deserve a T, In my opinion YES. Perhaps not in others but they were not in my shoes.

Smoke

I agree with You guys that all the details were probably reviewed. I just have a hard time saying absolutely "they screwed up" unless I was in the same situation exactly.

OK, now I see that we have different tolerances for this. They might go up the court jawing, but they surely wouldn't come back down the court jawing! I guess you allow a little more taunting and baiting than I do.

Usually I try to put a stop to it right away. The up and down was a quick fast break and then turn over back the other way. I dont allow taunting when I notice it right away. Also, I still for the life of me dont know what set these two off. It was a really good game, clean and competitive. After that though, Red just couldn't hit a shot to save their life and ended up losing by almost 40.

2 reasons.

#1, John Clougherty would not have taken the action that he did if both players deserved a T.

#2, Because I saw the game on TV and I've talked to people close to the situation.

The FSU deserved the intentional foul. He did not seserve the T. He didn't say anything or do anything to get a T. The officials made a mistake. They went with offsetting technical fouls, thinking that was the best way to handle it. But they didn't realize that Johnson now has 5 fouls.

Whether YOU have ever been in the same situation or not has absolutely zero to do with my opinion, and evidently the opinion of the ACC office, that they screwed up.

Oh Boy
 

Just another gotcha whenever Duke is playing. I guess you have to be Politically Correct in those types of games. Is it me or are officials' judgement being questioned?

I admittedly didn't read the article, but they were discussing this on the radio while I was on my way to my last lower level game of the season (and possibly one of the last of my career, I might give them up next season). They made it sound as though there were more problems in the game, that Duke was given a few no calls and calls late. Any truth to this part. I didn't see the game.

I do not disagree with the decision of the suspension, never said did. I will say again If you were not in their shoes you CAN NOT say they "screwed up". They made a judgement decision that was deemed to be in error. So be it, IMO they may have made a good call, I don't know because I wasn't there. That is the point I am making.


Don't get all defensive because others have different opinions then you.

The ACC is very high profile, and one of the consequences of officiating in this conference is the occasional crow-eating. The supervisor has been known to make officials formally apologize to coaches for blown calls. However, this is not a secret and officials know what to expect when they're hired.

I didn't see the play (or replays) and I have no idea whether or not a mistake was made. But - and I hope I am reading this wrong - I write to say that I hope the "mistake" was not related to the fact that "they didn't realize that Johnson now has 5 fouls." Either the kid deserved the T or he didn't. Whether it was his second, fourth or fifth ought not to matter....

Having seen the play, I'm really shocked that the officials were suspended. The FSU player may have been backing away, but that doesn't mean that he didn't instigate the altercation. Based on that, I don't have a problem with the technical. This guy already had one intentional foul in the first half (which I didn't see). On the second one he clearly didn't make a basketball play. He put Williams on his back. I thought it was a flagrant act. Last season, the officials didn't take care of that Temple player and his hard fouls before he maimed another player. Is that what the ACC super wanted to see?

Would the officials have been suspended if this was the player's 3rd foul? Or 4th foul?

What replay are you looking at?
we have a hard foul at the basket on the FSU Player Immediately and rightly so called an intentional foul.

The Duke player gets up from the floor and steps up to the FSU player and chucks him an elbow and shoulder push - The FSU player backs down.
Here is the technical foul on the Duke player right there.

after about 5 - 10 seconds there are 6 players in the middle and there is a scrum where you cannot tell who did what.
At this point an official comes in from the right hand part of the screen and Whacks two people.
If at this point you have technicals then there should be one on the FSU player and a second one on the Duke player.

No action would have been taken by the league without an investigation and apparently the answers that they got didn't jibe with what was on the tape.
I think the officials blew the situation from the point after the intentional foul - do they deserve a suspension - maybe - There may be more to it than just what the media has let out.

Tap into your sources and find out everything you can and share it - because only the whole truth shall set you free!

This is because the original acts resulted in the skirmish, right?

The only reason the officials were suspended in my opinion is the fact that there must have been something in the explanation that did not add up to the ACC. Whether the player was backing up should not be an issue. He could have said something that provoked a response from the Duke Player. There must have been some information that was not clear to the ACC and that is the reason there was action taken by the ACC. Either way the media story is not giving all the information for any of us to really know what happen.

Peace

Exactly.....

I think it is a bunch of crap that the ACC will publicly ridicule these 3 without revealing the entire story. It lays all of the blame on these 3 and the ACC looks like a savior. We have all been in this situation and to take away a game and a game check from these 3 is crap..........

You sort of wonder whether Clougherty was more reacting to the crew's officiating of the game as a whole, and the possibility that other mistakes were made, but decided rather than calling his officials out for numerous mistakes, he would give them the face saving out of basing it on one particular act.

Pure conjecture, of course. There was a lot of serious discussion about the officiating of that game from corners that I generally take seriously, and apparently, according to one report, Clougherty had a post game review with the officials. Would it be completely out of bounds, if he said, in private, that he saw some deficiencies that justified a one game suspension, but was willing to blame it on a single event to help the crew save a little face?

Seems the only rationale explanation, because the t call itself, while perhaps questionable, really seems like an awful thin pillar on which to support a suspension.

Sounds like saving face to me. With no explaination I think FSU complaining (in the media) was giving them grief and they figured we can suspend officials and it will all go away.

Thansk
David