City Tournament Boys JV game last night. Fairly close game through out, Home team lost a 5 point lead and was trailing by 2 or so with about a minute left. 2-man mechanics I'm Lead, ball gets passed into corner opposite me. I have come across the lane a little to get a look at post play. Ball is knock loose and ends up being tipped around a little and White ends up standing OOB with ball. Partner(T) got blocked out and couldn't see the play. Once guy came down OOB I looked to my partner who hadn't blown whistle yet because he couldn't see it. When he realized that they were OOB he blew his whistle and looked to me for help. I saw white standing OOB with ball and gave the ball to Blue. When Blue inbounds the ball white tries to trap and fouls Blue 20, I call it and am starting to go report it when #3 White starts walking away from clapping his hands and says "That's BullSh**", loud enough for me to hear it even though he's walking away. I call the T.

When I go to explain why I call the T to the coach he tells me that it's part of the game and it didn't deserve to be a T. I was totally stunned by this comment and I am interested in what you guys would do. I'm thinking that I should probably talk to the AD and explain what the coach told me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. As well as any suggestions about how the preceding play was handled(OOB play).

Jerry:

The T was a good T. I don't know if going to the AD about the coach will help or not.

Regarding the OOB play. I have two questions for you. 1) As the L what do you mean that you went across the lane a little? Either you went or should go ball side or don't go at all. Being in the lane extended is being in the quicksand area and that is no place for the L to be. 2) Which boundary line was White straddling when he was out of bounds? The end line or the T's sideline?

MTD, Sr.

Well, I wouldn't have gone to explain the "T" unless I was very specifically asked by the coach what the "T" was for. I can't tell from your post above whether the coach did ask you or not, but if he didn't, just keep t'hell away from him. If he did ask, then simply say "your player said something to me that was derogatory and profane". And... turn your back, stick your fingers in your ears and walk away. Of course, the coach is gonna make a comment. He has to. It's mandatory. I think that it's in their coaching manual somewhere. As long as <b>his</b> comment isn't profane or derogatory (or never-ending), then just ignore him.

As for the OOB call, doo-doo happens. You can only call what you <b>know</b>. Don't worry about it.

Jmo.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 19th, 2006 at 09:08 AM]

A player telling a ref "That's bullsh!t" is NOT a part of the game. You had to call that T. I, like you, find myself disappointed that a coach could find any way to disagree with that call. Disappointed, but not surprised. Earlier this week in a BV game, I called a personal foul against a player who then turned and slammed both hands down against the floor in protest. I followed up the personal foul with a technical foul. After reporting the fouls and then informing the coach that the player had been disqualifed (personal foul was #4, T was #5), the DQ'd player's coach asked to speak with me. He told me that his player was "just showing emotion," and you can't T a player for that. I told the coach that when emotion results in unsportsmanlike conduct, a technical foul is the appropriate call. Coach says: "No. No way."

As much as I'd like the kids to learn life lessons, some coaches appear unable, or unwilling, to teach them. I didn't report the coach's response to his AD because that particular team has been assessed quite a few technical fouls this season and the AD already is aware of the team culture.

You explained to the coach, he didn't like it and gave you his opinion. Walk away and be done with it.

Agree- that comment by the coach ain't report worthy. It's just his opinion and it wasn't really a big deal either imo.

it's a "t". if coach think it's part of the game, then he needs to get out of this game

I agree with the others. Good T, no reason to talk to the AD unless he asks you. It sounds like this team has sportsmanship issues. They can either choose to change their actions or continue to give up points and possession of the ball when they get whacked.

Two comments,
1) It would have been better if someone else called the T because now you are reporting TWO fouls on White #3.
2) Don't give an explanation unless a coach asks for one.

Absolutely a T. I had an almost identical situation in a varsity game a few weeks ago.

1st round boys varsity, holiday tournament (neutral site). Extremely physical and sloppy game -- Fouls were 12-8 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Gold had been down the entire game by as much as 15 at one point, but had brought the game all the way back to 1. By about 2 minutes left, we were lucky if we went 30 seconds w/o a foul being called...it was that physical and sloppy. That being said, nothing was blatant, flagrant, etc. Just hard basketball.

With 1:30 to go, I'm C far side. 4-on-3 fast break by Red. As Red1 goes to take a 3-pointer, Gold2 and Red2 tangle up feet and go to the ground right in front of me..no foul, had nothing to do w/ the play, just simple they weren't looking and ran into each other. In the process of falling, Green2's foot accidentally contacts Red2's head. Red2 jumps up, looks at me, and goes "That's Bulls**t!" At the same time, the shot goes hits the rim and goes over the backboard. Whack! Red Coach wanted an explanation, and he accepted it. Bottom line is, no matter what the score, what the situation, what the time left is, it's a T everytime.

How, in this situation, is someone else going to call the T on him?

Are you suggesting walking 30 feet over to your partner and telling them, "White #3 told me that's BS, so you give him the T, okay?"

First foul wasn't even on #3, it was on his teamate that was trapping with #3. And I agree with bz, how can I have my partner call the technical when he was on the other side of the floor and this occurred right near me?

No that is not what I'm suggesting. Why are you twisting what I said like that?

All I said was it would have been better for someone else to get the T, that's it. And I know that's not always possible so sometimes you gotta do watchu gotta do.

From your play description you say you're going to report it and #3 is walking away from you. Sounds like a perfect oppurtunity for someone who is deadball offciating to get a T while their partner's back is turned.

Unless it is a very overt display by A #3, it is a rare situation where 2 officials would be close enough for the non-calling official...this was a 2 person game...to call a T.

In a perfect world A #3 isn't cussing and every coach never says a word, I've never reffed in that world.;)

I agree that it looks better for a partner to whack a coach if it is their 2nd T, but a player or coach immediately reacting to a call right beside you, I'd say it makes the calling official look weak if their partner comes and gets it.

Great Coach trap, when you call a T on vulgarity:

Coach; "Whats the T for?"
Ref: "profanity Coach"
Coach: "What did he say?"
Ref: "Innapropriate language"
Coach: "What did he say exactly, tell me, I want to talk to him about it"

(Watch you response here.)

Not that hard.

He said BS.

The s word.

Dropped an F-bomb.

Ask him, Coach. He knows.

Not me.

Coach: "What's the T for?"
Me: "He said the call was bull****."

Coach: "What's the T for?"
Me: "He said the call was bull****."
[/B][/QUOTE]Coach now gives the prescribed response as per p23 of the coaches manual- "he was right."

Dan sez?

Coach now gives the prescribed response as per p23 of the coaches manual- "he was right."

Dan sez?


[/B][/QUOTE]

Depends...although I gotta admit I would probably not T the kid for saying bull**** unless the entire gym heard it to begin with.

My point is cutting to the chase is far better than going through "what did he say?" "I aint telling!" for 5 minutes. If the kid offended you come right out & tell what he said.

And IMO "Ask him" is inviting trouble

Ref: "Ask him"
Coach: "What did you say??"
Player: "I didn't say nuffin...snifff..he's just a mean man!"

My point is cutting to the chase is far better than going through "what did he say?" "I aint telling!" for 5 minutes. If the kid offended you come right out & tell what he said.

And IMO "Ask him" is inviting trouble

[/B][/QUOTE]I agree with that. He's heard the words before.

Now answer the question, weasel-boy.

After you do it your way and the coach sez "he was right, do you:
a) Ignore him.
b) warn him
c) "T" him up
d) laugh/giggle
e) tell him to "shut up".
f) puke on his shoes and/or stare at his pants
g) other

Inquiring minds need to know!

I agree with that. He's heard the words before.

Now answer the question, weasel-boy.

After you do it your way and the coach sez "he was right, do you:
a) Ignore him.
b) warn him
c) "T" him up
d) laugh/giggle
e) tell him to "shut up".
f) puke on his shoes and/or stare at his pants
g) other

Inquiring minds need to know!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Again, the kid would normally have to go much further than a whispered "bul****" before he gets my attention. But let's say I'm in a bad mood & I've had enough, and it works out as you say it might (which it might, which is why I don't have such a touchy trigger btw).

Then my answer is still it depends, although I'm really leaning towards d) laugh/giggle.

But you? You get e) tell him to "shut up".

Again, the kid would normally have to go much further than a whispered "bul****" before he gets my attention. But let's say I'm in a bad mood & I've had enough, and it works out as you say it might (which it might, which is why I don't have such a touchy trigger btw).

Then my answer is still it depends, although I'm really leaning towards d) laugh/giggle.

But you? You get e) tell him to "shut up".
[/B][/QUOTE]Close. STFU.