This may seem immaterial to most of us, but, does an overweight ref instantly harm his/her credibility? We talk about appearances (all black shoes, pants with no loops, etc.) and how much that matters. Does the stretching of the stripes put a doubt in player's/coach's/fan's minds that we might not be up to the task? We use the analogy of fat/overweight = lazy/not on top of game in many other ways. Does it apply to us? Much is said of Ed Hoculie (sp?) and what a great NFL ref he is. Does he gain some extra cred because he looks the role (see this months piece in SI about him...)?

[Edited by lmeadski on Jan 16th, 2006 at 01:00 PM]

From my point of view, weight doesn't matter as long as someone can get up and down the court and does a good job. I've seem some overweight (and not overweight) officials who struggle to get up and down the court (or simply walk) because of weight issues, knee issues, bad feet, etc. That concerns me. But simply "stretching the stripes" doesn't matter to me.

Of course it does. Everything about us we are going to be judged one way or the other, positively or negatively. The issue with weight is you either look like you can get up and down the court or you do not look like you cannot get up and down the court. Now if you are overweight you will have to overcome more than a skinny guy will. I have had coaches that focused on that the appearance of my partners because of their weight. That just comes with the territory.

Peace

The people that taught me to officiate always said that appearance is 80% of officiating. If you look like you know what you're doing and get into good position, you aren't going to have problems. Your body type may have an effect on how the coaches and fans percieve you (as will age, young or old, wearing glasses, tatoos, ect.). Personally I really feel that staying in pretty good shape helps my presence on the floor. I do know as you climb the ladder into college, your appearance becomes more important. I'm about 6 feet, average when I'm around high school officials, but when I go to college camps, I'm one of the short guys.

I think that if there are two refs of equal hustle, equal judgment, equal presence, equal rules knowledge, the overweight one will have to work harder for credibility. And the more overweight, the harder it becomes.

I'm a little portly in the belly (understated to prevent self-injury) but not seriously so. But when I work with someone who's got a healthier look, I look slow and less capable by comparison. When I work with someone who's seriously overweight, I appear to be the fitter one. I also think a fitter look helps a ref move up faster.

The other physical feature that I think hurts a ref is a red, flushed face. Appearing flustered reflects on how the ref's thinking and judging appears.

Being both flustered and a little overweight is a serious detriment, regardless of ability. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Yes,
 

I worked 17 years of D1 basketball and was released, rightfully so, by two of three conferences I worked because I had become too heavy.

If I can't tend to my own weight then maybe I failed to understand my priorites in what I was doing.

Just an opinion but I believe that what people see influences them greatly.

Case and point. There is no ref in the NBA that even remotely looks overweight. Personally I would like to be taller, but that is actually one aspect I can't control(6 ft. by the way).

refTN...I agree, I'm not overweight, just 4 inches too short.

Not just weight but overall conditioning is a factor.

We have 1 gentleman in our association that is a veteran of D-1 college and knows how to work a game like nobody else. As the years have caught up with him - knee surgery, arthritis, heart surgery - needless to say he's slowed way down.

Aa an experiened official he's efficient and can still call and manage a good game.

I worry about overweight, out-of-shape rookies.

Yes, physical ability to work a game becomes a greater factor early in one's development.

Coaches are already making judgments us about us when they see us initially. If you are overweight, they have already included that in their judgment of us. Some refs can overcome that first impression with their performance.

Even then, if the overweight ref misses a call (in the mind of the coach), it may be because "they were out of position due to their weight."

Z

We've talked about it in our association. It can hurt you in terms of moving up levels. When I see overweight officials, I have a tough time judging them as equally credible. Maybe it's human nature to think that way, but it happens.

Short answer: Yes

Long answer, i agree with what's been said. People make judgements before we ever take the floor. And whereas a fit looking official will usually get the benefit of the doubt, an unfit looking official will have to work his or her way out of a credibility hole. That goes not only for coaches but for players, fans and even sometimes partners.

Question: What if you see that an official has a limp, or a knee brace, or glasses. Would you judge that person the same as one who is overweight?

I won't on the glasses part since I wear them. I just don't like the thought of messing with my eyes by using contacts or laser surgery, although I am guessing 90% of guys over 30 have one or the other or both. If that hurts my rating, tough s***. I could beat 90% of the officials handily in a race from end line to end line.

Limp, yes. Knee brace should be hidden. Glasses no problem.

If I see a guy limping down the court I have to question his ability to get himself in the right position to make the call. If I am thinking that, you know the crowd is.

I'm not sure "weight" is necessarily the only issue. I think the issue is whether you look like you may have ever played basketball in your life. The players, and I think the fans, give more respect to someone who looks like they know the game. When someone gets to old, unless they are teriffic shape, there is a risk of loss of credibility. Weight, obviously, is an issue. I have heard players yap at partners of mine "have you even played the game?". At 6'5" and in reasonable shape, I think I get the benefit of the doubt. I think it is an advantage.

But then things change when you blow your whistle. If the heavy guy is getting up and down and the tall guy isnt. Or if the tall guy has a hesitant or late whistle and the heavy guy has awesome mechanics and makes good clear calls, there goes that initial impression--either negative or positive. Though I guess it is easier to lose a good impression your appearance created than it is to overcome a bad impression your appearance created.

One thing I DON"T do is my Curly Neal impression at halftime. [or ANYtime.] :D

Every physical attribute affects your credibility. Height, glasses, facial hair, head hair, skin color, build ect.

Including weight.

Our Commisioner on our board made the statement in the beginning of the year that if you are overweight, you will not get AAA Boys Varsity Games. Needless to say, it sidelined a bunch of officials and open the doors for more!

What was the criteria for being overweight? Who decided who was overweight?

Wow, that's a pretty subjective decision for one person to make. I can think of a couple officials in my local association who are a little overweight but I would "go to war" with them for any game at any level. Other officials are fit as a fiddle, but are not nearly as strong on the court.

Doesn't your group have a ratings system that incorporates MANY criteria (possibly including weight) to evaluate an official's ability? This sounds like a person who has given runaway power. Isn't there a board of directors to keep him/her in check?

If you exclude an official on weight alone, where do you stop? Are you going to keep AAA boys games from officials with glasses? Officials who are over a certain age? Isn't it supposed to be about ability? Why would you penalize an overweight official who is darn good and has made up for his weight by being so good in many other areas?

Z

I wonder at what point this becomes discrimination and can be legally prosecuted?

I have read that NBA officials have target weights they have to maintain. Perhaps things work differently if you are an employee of the league with a collective bargaining agreement than if you're an independent contractor, but I would think you'd have a hard time making any case if you're an independent contractor who was not given a contract because the group or person giving the contract judged you unfit for the job.

I guess it's all in how you define "unfit."

I do not think the issue is whether or not you are getting games. The issue is whether how you are being judged. We can all be judged by whatever reason someone comes up with. You cannot legislate why people want to judge you or not. If a coach, assignor, fan thinks you are too fat to get up and down the court that is up that coach, fan, and assignor to think that way. It might not be fair, but if you go into a bar and see a girl that you think is pretty, no one can tell you that you have to talk to the ugly girl. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So what is considered fat or overweight is very subjective. After all we are doing something where we have to keep up. It is not like we are sitting in a chair and doing mathematical equations. We are running after kids that are many times more than half our ages and we need to show we can keep up with them consistently. Players are judged on their physical ability, why should we be any different?

Peace

WRONG, his name is Blane or something like that and although he has been in the league for about twenty some years, I just noticed him about 3 or 4 years ago. He also just worked his first playoff about that time. Now that I think of it, I haven't seen him this year.

I'm not a lawyer by a long shot, but isn't this sort of like the communities where you have to be 50 years old? Their rational is everyone will eventually be 50. Maybe that doesn't add up, but wouldn't someone have to prove their weight isn't a factor in their performance.

Blaine Reichalt (sp?), #37

I think he's a decent ref actually. But boy, does he ever have a wierd body shape.

I think the shape is called "blaine", because quite possibly nobody else has that shape. :D

As an overweight official myself...sure it probably matters and impacts my schedule. I was recently talking about schedules with another chapter member before our last meeting. I told him that I figured the factors that impacted my schedule were;

1) Assignment secretary did not have many chances to see me work (and I have not had a formal evaluation during a game in the 2 years since I returned to the chapter). These are primarily because I came back last year after all the local camps were over and only was able to work 1 scrimmage and the chapter is in bad need of people to evaluate. Last summer, I went to the local camps but he was sick once and just did not get a chance to watch more that one half of one of my games at the other camp.

2) Weight. But I have lost just over 10% of my start of the season weight...so I'm getting there.

3) Becasue of my real job, I had to turn back the 2 sxrimmages I was scheduled to work before the season and two games right after the season started. On all but one of the games, it was at the last minute because mt bosses boss told us we had to work at the last minute.

Since the assignment secretary also calls games, numbers 1 and 3 are out of my control. I just work the games I am given, will continue to lose weight until I get to where I want to be and hope for more exposure next summer during camps. Last year I received 4 varsity (very small schools) and medium sized schools JV. This year I have had 5 medium sized school varsity and large school JV...just fewer games.

Guess in a way, he considers it a move up. Doesn't matter a lot to me...I just do it because I enjoy it.

The criteria was stomaches hanging over belts as well the ability to get up and down the court. We do have an evaluation system and that is on the evaluation too. All I can say is that nobody confronted him about it.

My son and I were watching the Movie "Office Space" years ago. He said,

"Gee Dad....you look like that guy Milton."

Sad but true. Overweight, glasses and not too bright looking.

However, I do ALWAYS show up on time. I played the game until I was 52, know the Rules and I Ref & Coach for free at our Y League in town. The "free and on time" are key factors in my success.

Personally, I try not to judge any person on their appearance too much. I've seen too many "Ted Bundy" looking Refs that were awful. This Post reveals a lot of shallowness about our Society. No wonder so many women develop negative self-esteem based on body shape. To prove my point, what if we elected Politicians based on "appearance" rather than skill & ability.....Oops......

You didn't know this kind of thinking existed? I feel sorry for you because this is just a very, very, very small example in out society. I'm not even sure this subject could be considered shallow since weight can hamper performance, in many cases.

It's why I started the thread
 

Being a first year ref, I am doing JV, not V. I usually stay for the V game. I sit in the stands and listen to the fans. Weight is the FIRST thing that is usually mentioned about a ref. If bad calls ensue, its the "fat ref" or "fat refs" that are out of position, or, haven't played the game so they aren't as good as refs that have, etc. This is especially true of 2-man teams.

Not to twist this too far
 

Do you all think female refs suffer with credibility issues (especially in boys games) because of their gender?

Positioning
 

Here are my observations are the weight issue. Without a doubt there are refs who are fat who have far superior reffing skills than I have. I sometimes wonder if they are able to put those skills into action because they can't get to the position they need to be in to use those skills.

I also watch lots of varsity games. It is a strange sight seeing the kids running and gunning and the ref struggling to keep up .

I am 6 ft 3 and 230 lbs but in pretty decent shape. So i look like the poster child for the Republican party, sorry i'm a Democrat, much to my fathers frustration. LOL I believe people treat me different becuase of how I look. I believe I get instant credibility ,then they see me in action. LOL

My point is , of course it matters, whether thats fair or not well .........

Relative to the two preceding replies:

In truth, being overweight is not a good thing. It can hinder performance. On the other hand, so can alcoholism, drug use, smoking and countless other complusions such as temper, greed, prejudice and PRIDE.

If an in-shape Ref has red hair: Some fan will be calling him Howdy-Doody.

If an in-shape Ref looks perfect: Some fan will yell, "Hey, Ashton Kucher....nice call."

A wiseA@@ fan will usually find something to needle a Ref about. As for an overweight guy never playing....two words.....Oscar Robinson. Many of us don't look the same at 55 as we did at 25. I could care less about what a fan thinks of my built - it's enough trying to get calls right.

In my Y League, the Women Refs get no less respect than the men. We use IABBO Refs for the 9-12 League and quite a few women come out. Never seen a problem.

My IAABO board once had a D1 assignor as the speaker at our end-of-year banquet. At one point, he patted his ample tummy and said, "You are looking at the last of the fat referees!"

He's the guy who makes the decisions about who works his league. . . FWIW.

JCROW
 

How right you are. Had a game where , in a pretty empty gym. thought it would be funny to refer to me as Elvis all night. I love my sideburns.

Ran into him on the way out, his 5 ft 6 in,fat, balding a$$ had not a peep to say to me as he scurried in the other direction LOL

Re: Not to twist this too far
 

I know some female refs that I would do any game with. I also know some female refs I wouldn't do a 3rd grade game with. This is no different than male refs.

Oh, I know a few female refs I would want with me if a fight breaks out too. :D

When did we change to what nicknames fans give officials? It sounds like you are getting defensive now.

Re: Not to twist this too far
 

Officials are judged on everything. Race, Gender, age, weight, background, where you live and anything else you can come up with. So of course a female ref is judged by her ability more harshly when working Boy's games. I have seen it happen for myself while working with a female partner. Violet Palmer had several articles and ESPN Stories about her working in the NBA. Do you know of any other officials where they asked many NBA stars what they think of one particular official (they also talked about Dee Kantner at the time too)?

Peace

Re: Not to twist this too far
 

Of course they do. How easy is it for a male coach to think (or even say), "stay out of the man's game" or some ridiculous comment like that? Again though, it's PERCEPTION. We should be concerned about performance. Perception can be overcome by consistent, excellent performance.

Back to the weight thing: I still enjoy the workout of a 2-person game, even though I rarely work one. 3-person makes speed far less important. Assignors should want the best officials on the game. If excess weight makes that official inferior (mobility issues) fine... but to not give a high-level game to an overweight official who is a great performer, that is just ignorant.

Z

"How easy is it for a male coach to think (or even say), "stay out of the man's game" or some ridiculous comment like that?"

Off topic - Would you T someone for saying something like this? It sounds "personal" (as in one of the Three Ps.)

[Edited by hooper on Jan 17th, 2006 at 01:13 PM]

I have been denied girls varsity assignments from one of my assigners due to my weight. Meanwhile I have worked boys varsity games in the inner city and two other leagues for the last few years without any complaints (brought to my attention anyway). So I can definetely say that it is taken into account with some people.

I have only heard two comments about my weight. The first from the former assignment secretary of our chapter who is also a bit heavy. His comment was "we both need to lose some weight...you seem to be the only one doing it."

The other was from a partner after a game. He was complaining that after 13 years he is getting mostly sub varsity and has not been given a reason and how he was looking for someone to help him change that. I told him I only worried about the things I could control...figuring doing my best on the floor, spending time honing my rules knowledge, working to improve mechanics and getting my weight back into control would cause my schedule to improve. His reply was "You seem sharp and have good mechanics. As for your weight...sure, keep losing. You may be called fat by some, but you can change that. I had a veteran partner last week that will always be a smarta$$ jerk and a lousy official because he refuses to work on the craft. I will call with you anytime."

I appreciated the comment...just took it with a grain of salt. If you believe the compliments...you have to believe all the negatives said as well.

Our appearance does make a difference in the way we are perceived. It's the total package. Weight is just one of the factors -- many others have been mentioned above -- but it *is* a factor. Some of us have weights that are naturally controlled. Some of us are forced to, and can, control our weight; still others of us have more difficulty doing so and some of the reasons for those difficulties may be largely outside an individual's control.

If we are serious about officiating, we should do all that is within our control to improve. And if we are serious about respect and relationships, we need to be understanding of others who might not have it as easy as we do.

Rogaine for everyone! (The bald head is such an easy target.)

I believe it is Blaine Reichardt who also wears a belt! BTW, I am off to do a doubleheader with a female official who I would go to war with anytime. Gender to me is a non-issue. The fact that an official cannot take care of something within his/her control is completely different. I am on the shorter side, 50 and balding. I am damned that I am going to let myself become short, 50, balding and overweight!