A question from the coaching side of my brain...

We had a game recently that was very physical. The game was called VERY loosely by the refs, especially in the 2nd half. (I think 5 or 6 total fouls were called in the 2nd half.) This was a 7th grade game. Kids were flying all over the court, getting knocked down, elbowed, and, on more than one occasion, coming out of the game crying (something that just doesn't happen with this particular team team) and welts forming on arms, necks, heads, etc. I don't fault the refs for favoring one team over the other, but the level of play was allowed to get so rough and out-of-control that our team discussed forfeiting the game because we were concerned about someone getting seriously injured.

Question: Other than asking the referees to call the game closer for safety reason (which I did, but seemed to have no effect), what's the best course of action here?

>> level of play was allowed to get so rough and out-of-control<<

I believe this is one of the world's biggest myths: that officials control this play simply by their calls. In my experience, the EXACT same thing would have happened (bumps/crying/etc.) even had they called a lot of fouls, its just that the game would have taken much longer and the number of foul calls increased. More likely than not, the kids were agressively out of control, play wise, and that out of control posture is what caused the problems. Kids don't go "flying all over the court" because of something the official did or didn't do. Even if a call was missed, the whistle there wouldn't have healed any injury and its very doubtful it would have detered any future physical behavior -- at least the stuff you are talking about.

Now, its a completely other issue to say, "the officials allowed too many hacks on the shooter," or "didn't call the rebounding fouls, putting our smaller kids at a disadvantage." Those are legitimate issues, but you would have to assert that the game started smoothly and ran that way for a while, but got increasingly rougher as the kids figured out they could get away with more and more contact. I don't believe this is a natural tendency in basketball, and I'd be hard pressed to remember a game I had like that. Virtually all the time, like two games I had the other night, the game starts out with the kids out of control and remains that way regardless of what we call.

Sounds like Monday's game. Both teams in double bonus with 5 minutes to go. 4 DQs. Game took forever. But the game was a series of train wrecks, undisciplined play, and stupid fouls. Afterwards, my partner & I agreed it was a terrible game, but we called it as it needed to be called. The varsity officials concurred.

It is very possible that the game was called too loosely.

On the other hand, as I mentioned in a previous thread, sometimes kids are asked to do some things that they can't do. I'd say from the freshman level on down, kids don't have good body control and when they are asked to press full court and trap, they end up with a lot of blocking fouls and hacks. Even if the game is called closely, kids may not adjust to the way it is called. Also, the style of play is more helter-skelter now than I can remember. Disciplined play is not so common. I've had coaches say, "We don't have a lot of talent so we are going to run." Heck, if you want to see the skill deficits in a team, running is the first thing that will expose them. It takes skill to dribble with your head up, see the open player, pass on the run, fill the lanes, catch the ball and shoot on the run. If you don't have skill, you better walk the ball up the floor.

You were a coach during this game?

You have no influence on how your team plays the game?

If you truly think the refs were not calling enough you should have had your team clean their end of it up and it would make your point really obvious. But If its like I see it both teams were just playing dirty, suck it up and play tough to, play as tough as the refs are gonna let you.

Referee's are programmed to think "Aadvantage / Disadvantage" and that applies to establishing the games physicality.

It is very difficult to control a game that establishes itself as physical - if done equally by both teams.

Referee's are expected to be consistent. Every game has a flow to it and referee's adjust as it unfolds.

I wonder and ask you reply as to what the other teams coach was saying as well. If BOTH Coach's were asking for more fouls and complaining about the rough play - I'd say thats a first for me.

Wow! I'm really surprised by these defensive responses! I was hoping for something more thoughtful and constructive.

Perhaps I didn't give enough detail... this was a classic case of where the game starts out very ordinarily... and the players test the officials, as they sometimes do, to see what they'll call and won't call. The game became more and more aggressive as it went on, and by the third quarter most of the players were frustrated by the no calls and decided "Well, if he can get away with it, then I'll do the same thing." I actually stayed and watched the game after mine, which had the same officials, and saw exactly the same thing happen.

The more I think about it (and if the responses here are any indication of how difficult it would have been to do ANYTHING about during the game), I think I should have just called the game off. I know this is extreme, but in my 10 years of coaching, I've never seen anything like this happen. I feel lucky none of my kids were seriously injured. (We won the game, by the way, but I feel terrible about putting my kids into a situation like that. It wasn't fun for anyone.)

The opposing bench got a warning for complaining about the no calls, and their assistant coach eventually got a T in the second half. It was really quite bad.

I'm not going to encourage my team to play dirty, no matter what the circumstances. They did the best they could, given what was going on. Hopefully, this situation will never come up again to this degree, but if it does, I really would have to consider just pulling my kids off the court and saying "Thanks for the opportunity, but no thanks. We'll have a game next week, let's go for pizza."

So is there really nothing that can be done in this situation? Most of the time I have little, if any, issue with the refs in our league. But, sad as it might be, there are some duds out there.

[Edited by hooper on Jan 15th, 2006 at 12:02 AM]

... don't mean to be defensive intentionally but opening a thread on a referee forum indicating (suggesting) that the <i> game was called VERY loosely by the refs </i> seems to this responder to be a bit of a complaint.

As you identify yourself as a coach - I read "advocate".

That said a foul is a foul. The other stuff is "advantage/disadvantage". One coach's "rough play" is another coach's strategy to win. The referee has NOTHING to do with strategy.

You also say <i> I don't fault the refs for favoring one team over the other </i> and that suggested to me that it might be coach speak. Further you write <i> that our team discussed forfeiting</i> which sounds like another anti ref attitude.

Hence a tad of defensiveness perhaps.

To answer you directly: If you honestly feel the officals were putting saftey in question - call the association assigner and report that concern. It will be addressed I'm sure. I'd ask the other coach to chime in too.

... and thanks for working with the kid's Coach.

after 13 years of oficiating, i have noticed more & more officials calling games this way. even though basketball is clearly not a non-contact sport, the game needs to be called. we are out there to protect the kids well -being as they play. you're getting paid. do your job!

I agree, sometimes officials take shortcuts just to get the game over. Especially with rec games where you work multiple games and just want to get the hell out of there.

Thanks for the suggestion about contacting the association assigner. That's the type of information I was looking for, along with any suggestion on how to handle the situation during the game.

And yes, I did have a complaint about the officiating (and being a newish referee myself, ableit at a rec level, I appreciate the difficulties of the position.) When I said "I don't fault the refs for favoring one team over the other," what I meant was I didn't think they were calling the game unevenly between the teams (as in the usual coach complaint "You have to call it both ways.") I think the non-calls (and calls) were equally distributed among the teams. My concern was their decision not to call fouls that seemed worthy of calls, thus resulting in injuries, tears, kids not having fun, etc.

I know myself that when I officiate, I make decisions all the time on what kind of contact warrants a foul call. My concern in this game was that the level of contact needed to get a whistle was extremely high. My feeling is that it became a safety issue for players on all teams.

I am by no means commenting on all officials... and in fact the refs in our area are generally very good and keep the game safe and fun for all! Thanks for your response.

Who were the refs? Were they experienced or were they rookies or maybe even high school kids? Perhaps they were simply in over their heads. Younger kids games are most often the entry level for beginning officials but what many people do not realize is that a game such as the one you describe can be tougher to call than a varsity game.

As far as saying that the officials can do nothing to clean up this type of game, I disagree. Tighten up the foul calls, on both ends of course, and talk to the players as you line up for free throws. My favorite line:
"Clean it up guys. I promise you will all run out of fouls before I will."

hooper-

some more info would be nice.

where were the refs from? was this an official school game? where these high school refs workign a middle school game?

what did you mean when you said you didnt blame the refs for favoring one team over the other. I dont mean to sound defensive :) but the suggestion that I as a ref would "favor" one team over the other is so far from my brain that I cant even imagine it.

what "exactly" did you say to the refs? and what was your demeanor and attitude when you said what you said. sometimes i know to ingore a coach just because of how he is talking to me. if he is being a spaz i tune him out, after i rule out the "T". communication isnt just what you said, it is four things: message, messenger, medium, and audience.

lets talk message.

i have to say that "call it tighter for safety" isnt a very clear statement of your complaint. That was probably a bad way to go at the issue. To me that says "coach is just complaining." Obviously, I am going to call a game to make sure it is safe. I dont think any ref is out there disregarding the safety of the kids. So that statement doesnt really say anything to a ref, in my opinion.

now messenger.

how were you acting? what had happened earlier? had you been doing a lot of complaining already? if so, maybe you got tuned out.

medium isnt that relevant.

now audience. the refs themselves. but i've already asked about that above.

one thing, if you had actual observable physical injuries that you claim, call a time out, call the refs over (at this level they will come talk to you i would hope) and SHOW them.

now it is time to be honest: how were your kids playing? just as rough?

how would you have expected the game to be called? do you think calling it differently would have affected the play by the players (particularly at this level)?

I disagree with this statement; this is something I wouldn't want a young official to think has merit.
The rules don't change. The points of emphasis don't change from game to game. I've done this quite a bit, but I would like to know how the heck am I supposed to go into a game and adjust to the flow that the players set. Should I let two, three or four fouls go before I see what the flow is that the players set?
I think I will stick with taking the emotional, compasionate part out and calling every game consistently (at least trying to the best I can) by using the rules and POEs.

just another ref, good point! most of the games in my area, freshman and under are for the newbies. I am a second year ref and get a few of these games here and there. I dont think they should put two 1st year refs in that kind of situation and that kind of pressure. The 2 middle school games I did the other night were by far the most intense games I have had all year. It kinda sounds like what this coach is talking about, intense, pressure filled game with two new refs possibly. Your a little intimidated as a first year ref with all the surroundings in that situation. Tough spot for both refs and coaches IMO and sometimes leads to this coaches thread!

A similar thing happened at my son's game
 

this weekend. It was a 10-team tournament. Before my son's game (8th grade), against a rival, the refs decided to "let them play." This was covered in the captains meeting at mid-court during pregame. There were no incidences of overly rough play all day. In this game, however, we had two player ejections for what became increasingly aggressive play. It was a great contrast to other games that were called, for lack of a better word, normally. As a coach, and a ref, I do believe kids will play to the level of contact allowed by the refs (the same way some teams play up or down to the level of their opponents). As one example, many times during our JV/V games, we refs talk at the breaaks about "tightening things up" because "the play underneath is getting too aggressive." Of course, we want the kids to be able to play. And, of course, we make foul calls based on advantage/disadvantage. However, aggressive play begats aggressive play. Yes, coaches have a role in how their kids play. But what coach in his right mind is going to say,"I know they aren't calling fouls, but I want us to continue our conservative play and let them continue to bang us." Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

I accept your point and suggest your reading too much into the statement you quoted.

Consider the different dynamics of every game and tell me (us) you don't "adjust"? Yes a foul is a foul from Pee-Wee to NBA. Yet don't you adjust to:
Full Court man-to-man from the opening
A slick floor
A dominant Post player with high elbows
a team that closly guard by design
a Team that emphasises screening
One team that plays above the rim and the other cannot
a rivelry game?

The only way to have true consistency is to have the same two teams every night.

Re: A similar thing happened at my son's game
 

I had a partner in a game last year who announced "We're gonna let you play." Translation: I want to get this over with as quick as possible. I had two varsity officials watching me and this guy wasn't patched, so I gave him the same credibility as some guy in the stands hollering for 3 seconds. I have since found out that others viewed this official in the same way I did. I had just seen the visiting team in another venue 2 nights earlier and there was no way I was going to 'let them play'. Think I called the first 5-7 fouls before the other guy realized his game plan was out the window.

CDAREF

More information on the game in question: It was at a tournament, 7th grade boys, the officials looked to be in their early 40s, both had State official's association patches. I didn't get the impression they were new at this.

I'm not a yeller (as a coach.) In fact, I don't talk to the officials at all unless they ask me a question or I have a question. (My philosophy, in general, is that they run the show and I provide the cast.) I called a time-out and walked over to one of the refs - after our second player came out crying after a blow to the the head - and asked if they could call the game a little closer, watch the fouls, because kids were getting hurt. Ref said, "OK" and walked away.

I thought about bringing our player over to talk with the ref too (the one who had just come out) but he was in tears and I didn't want to embarass him further (crying is not cool for a a 13 year old!) Maybe I should have brought him over though.

The play of the game was rough - lots of reaching, body checks, elbows, pushing, grabbing, etc.

I DO think that calling the game closer would have made a difference. I think the kids were testing the boundaries of what they could do (as teenagers will do sometimes) and even a few well-called fouls would have helped the kids go, "Hey, I guess I won't do that again."

hooper -- you've hit a nerve, obviously.

Here are some suggestions for the future. In one game I did, both coaches came to my partner and me together and said, "We're trying to help our kids learn to play with less contact. If you'd call it a little tighter, we'd appreciate it."

You can also talk to the assignor, as others have suggested.

The trick to getting what you want is to avoid certain tones of voice and certain phrases. If you say, "They're getting hurt" or "C'mon blow the whistle" or "this isn't football", the ref or assignor will just hit the mute switch, and you'll be talking to a brick wall. Also, there needs to be no suggestion that you're losing because of the refs. Furthermore, you have to avoid certain rule myths, such as "over the back" and "reaching in". Neither of these is agains tthe rules, and refs don't want to hear these kinds of ignorance from you.

What you can say, especially to an assignor, is "other refs in this league have been more strict with the contact, and we like that to be consistent." "Yea, we won, but we felt like our kids were learning bad plays." "I've been working iwth my kids on playing clean defense, and when they get lazy or sloppy, I want them called for it." This gives the message that you want more calls in both directions.

I can sympathize with your concern. And I agree that this can be a big issue at the 7th grade level. You have to approach it carefully in order to get consistency from game to game.

Damn!

Yet another name to add to the list of people who asked for advice but walked away unsatisified when told what they didn't want to hear.

Let's see...I'll put your name right after my brother-in-law...as I recall I advised him against cashing in the kid's college funds to buy Enron "at the bottom".

Anyways, good luck.

You are really taking it in running with it.

It still comes down to this, IN EVERY GAME, all obvious violations are violations, contact that gains an advantage is a foul.

Nothing on your list changes that, nor should it.

Another thing to consider is that these are young athletes with limited strength, speed, and skills. Just because a game looks rough and a player ends up in tears, doesn't mean that there fouls need to be called. Often at this level players end up on the floor more because of their own actions that the actions of their opponents. Another thing to consider, if these were veterans working the game, they may be used to a higher level of play. I notice, even in my varsity games, when we go from a 3A game to a 1A game we look like we're letting everything go. It looks that way because we get used to bigger, stronger athletes that can play through some contact that weaker athletes cannot and some nights it is hard to adjust. I agree that if you have a legitimate concern, talk to the assignor, but these are points that may be relevant to your game.

Asking me as an official to call the game a certain way is not going to change anything. It will not make a difference if the officials know what the hell they are doing in the first place. So you need to get that out of your head right now.

Secondly it is your job as a coach to adjust to the way the game is being called, not the other way around. I have been in games where we do nothing but call fouls and the coaches complain. I do not tell players how to play offense or defense. I do not tell players how to dribble or to not dribble through players that are just standing still. I do not tell players how to defend a shot. The amount of fouls an official calls is not going to change the safety level of the game. As a matter of fact if players are not taught well they will get hurt either way.

Peace

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
[B]

Quote:

Secondly it is your job as a coach to adjust to the way the game is being called, not the other way around.

Agreed, a coach MUST adjust to how the game is being called.

Quote:

The amount of fouls an official calls is not going to change the safety level of the game.

In our last game, the tallest kid on the court (also the skinniest) got 2 quick fouls (well deserved calls on HARD fouls). He left the game in less than 2 minutes. He came back in to start the second quarter, got another foul. I reported and took my trail spot. The kid was pulled and got an earful from his coach as he approached the bench, "If you continue to play like that, you'll be gone. Clean it up!" When the kid came back in, he played like a saint. I do think HOW the game is called will impact the safety of the game.

That might be true but it is not the official's responsibility as to how the game is played. Coaches and players decide that. We do not tell coaches whether to play man to man vs. zone. We do not tell coaches to run a full court press vs. a half court offense. We do not tell coaches how to play defense and when to contest shots or when to drive to the basket. All we do is call fouls and violations. We also do not have anything to do with the talent on the court and how that talent is developed.

The coach in your example took the kid out of the game and obviously decided that the actions of his player were going to get him in more trouble.

Peace

Agreed
 

We are on the same page...

Thanks for these comments! These are very helpful! You've hit exactly on my concerns. These kids are still learning to play the game, and I rely on the officials to teach them what's legal and what's not during a game. Likewise, I rely on the officials to keep the game safe.

I like the idea of getting with the opposing coach and both of us talking with the offical during half-time or a time-out.

One of the struggles many coaches have from game to game is that no-calls in one game are fouls in the next and vice versa. I've had kids come out and ask me, "How come that's a "foul, violation, etc." now? I did that last time and it was OK." (I usually try to explain as best I can - this is always a foul, it just wasn't called last time, or what you did last time was a little different than what you did this time - but sometimes I just have to say "This ref is going to call a "foul, violation, etc." when you do X, so don't do it." This frustrates them tremendously, but sometimes that's the best explanation I can give.)

But that's not really at issue here, the question is safety in this instance and I appreciate your comments.

[Edited by hooper on Jan 15th, 2006 at 08:09 PM]

Although I'm sure (at least I hope) other officials looking at this thread have thought the same, I would like to thank the officials who have basically stated the fact that the officials do not adjust to the players' flow. That is hogwash and shouldn't even be said. I can tell you right now that from 7:30pm to approximately 9:30pm tomorrow, a illegal screen will be called as such, a push will be called a push and so forth. It doesn't matter what kind of flow the teams want to have, I'm going to to what I'm getting paid to do and what I'm being evaluated for. Oh, the floor is an old floor but if it is slick, too bad so sad.

Who controls?
 

I know it's probably already been said to death, but I'll throw in my two cents. I had an 8th grade girls game last week. Bonus by the end of the first quarter--both teams. All the girls kept fouling until halftime. After the half, the girls from both teams came out with their hands back and played clean ball.

So what was the difference in the second half? Is it that we called the game differently? No, it's because the coaches told them to back off. That's their job.

I will say this, though. The coaches won't tell the players to back off if they aren't afraid of their players getting into foul trouble.

Grade school kids don't get it. You call a foul on them, they'll do the same thing again and again. But the coaches are (usually) smart enough to tell them to back off if they are afraid of foul trouble.

Re: Who controls?
 

Not always true. If a crew 20+ fouls in a half (JH usually plays less than 16 minute halves) it is not the official's responsibility. I have been involved in games and watched games were the officials do nothing but call fouls and nothing changes. But for some reason you see the coaches saying to the officials, "you are letting this game get out of control." All we have say in is how many fouls we call; we do not control the safety of the players when we call the fouls.

Peace

Re: Who controls?
 

Wow. As a coach, I disagree.

I think you're underestimating the impact that a foul will have on a player. It's sudden. It's clear. And there's an immediate consequence. A coach talking to a kid 10 minutes later might have some impact, but half the time the kid won't even remember the incident that the coach is talking about. (Teenagers tend to forget things....)

I think you're overestimating the coaching influence (though I hope I'm wrong!) and underestimating how impactful the immediate consequence of a foul can be. Refs really to have the ability to change the course of a game!

Who Controls?
 

My experience has taught me that a "basketball game" has to be being played before officials can officiate a basketbal game. My point is this, when 10 players are out of control, they can't dribble, they cant pass, they can't shoot, defense is played by hacking at one another, bellying up to an offensive player when he stops his dribble, holding on to jerseys on throw ins,,etc etc...

Then the coaches and parents want to blame the refs for the game getting out of control. You can't ref a basketball game if one is not being played!!

Re: Re: Who controls?
 

I think you are overestimating the power of officials. You deal with the players on a daily basis. We see the players sometimes only one time a season. You control their playing time directly. We have to call fouls and until they are disqualified from the game in order for them to sit down. I agree that we affect the game, but you coach them to make the proper decision that could result in fouls. I have had coaches get upset with me because their player tried to dribble between defenders standing in the paint and there was no foul. We do not just call fouls because someone hits the floor or falls down. We call fouls when the rules have been violated and there is some advantage by someone. Basketball is a contact sport, and the rules say that contact can be severe and there should be no foul called. If you do not want players to be hurt, tell them to make good decisions with the ball. Tell the little guard to not go in hard against a much bigger player. I have seen screens set by big players and the screener did nothing but stand there (which by rule would be absolutely not a foul but coaches like you have called for one). It is your job as a coach to teach your players to call out screens and decide the philosophies that fit your players and the team you are playing. I also officiate bigger kids than 7th grade and the older they get the more chances for bigger bodies to fall will go up greatly. Coach either you do not understand the rules or you do not understand officiating. There is only so much we can ever do to keep the players safe.

Peace

JRutledge,

You're a little prickly, aren't you? We'll just agree to disagree.

No, I just think your point of view is very educated on this topic.

Look, I spent most of my Sunday talking about making officials better and drove two hours each way to do it. Those conversations were important, this is just gravy. ;)

Peace

"This ref is going to call it this way, so don't do it" IS without a doubt the best explanation, and it's a great learning opportunity for your players. I did a girls varsity game last year where I was really in a little over my head. I was used to JV and called a pretty tight game, especially in the first quarter. The coaches were both just going nuts, which I couldn't understand at all. But one team came out in the second half, and quit fouling. The other team didn't. Guess which team won? And which team had by far the better record both that season and also over several years? The team with the coach who taught her players to adjust to the refs (they ended up being second in the state last year). So you're up there with the quality coaches when you use this explanation to your players, and they'll be up with the top players when they learn how to make that adjustment.

Re: Who Controls?
 

My experience is exactly the same as your experience. Good points imo.

I've officiated games like that, and I've also had to suffer through the same comments as Hooper was throwing out. Usually not for long though. :) It's 7th. grade basketball; the skills simply aren't there yet.

Totally agree with the last couple of comments. There has to be some semblance of basketball being played before we can call it the right way. I've had some games that turned into the ugliest, fouling, clutching and grabbing I've ever seen. Those are usually the games where the PARENTS are up in the stands yelling at the refs and the other team.

Give me those SAME kids in a game where parents act civilized and you will have a cleaner, nicer game even if the skills aren't quite there yet.

I guarantee you when parents get too involved thinking they are getting cheated and the coach starts whining, these kids feed into it. I've had kids apologize for their parents before and hug me on the way out of the gym !

Also, "a foul is a foul"....just isn't true...it is a situational thing.....

The game I had on Saturday was not a very well played game by both teams. The visiting team players would complain every single time there was a call. Every time my partners called something I had a kid in my face or making a comment. I even had a kid follow me around the court after my partners called something that I actually did not completely see. Funny thing the coach of the visiting team was complaining a lot too. Every time something was called he was in the ear of me or one of the other officials. Then he did not like the fact that I called an illegal screen on his player that set a football style block (most of the screens were like that, I picked the worst one ;)). Then we came to the other end and the home team's set a screen while moving, but the defender ran around the screen and no contact and no displacement took place. I did not call anything and the coach went nuts. I T'd up the coach from the Lead position as I was table side. This took place in at the end of the first half after we had called more than 20 fouls in the first half.

The second half starts and we called just as many fouls on both sides and not one person complained the rest of the game. At least they did not complain outwardly as they had during the first half. Funny when the coach decides to do something, the players follow.

Peace

Usually
 

the degree to which a player plays rough is inverse to his skill level. What else can a player do with a limited skill set than to play tough? I think everyone on this thread is understanding of how this all comes together: the player's skill level, the coach's ability to coach and maneuver his/her team through a game, and how we call the game, are 3 key elements to how the game unfolds. One impacts the other, which impacts the other, etc. It is a big circle. And, being a circle, you can claim that one of these 3 is more important than they other as it relates to the game. In reality, that depends where you jump in on the circle.

Re: Re: Who controls?
 

Maybe if you sat the kid on the bench for a half instead of lecturing him for 10 minutes you could have a clear, sudden impact on your player's performance.

hooper:
I think you're overestimating the coaching influence (though I hope I'm wrong!) and underestimating how impactful the immediate consequence of a foul can be. Refs really to have the ability to change the course of a game!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
That is c**p Refs are not their to change the course of a game. I come into a game ready to call what I see. I call what i see from the first tip to the final whistle. It is the coaches job to adjust. If a ref adjusts then we are not playing basketball because the ref is now adjusting the rules, this my friend is not the job of a ref. PLAYERS AND COACHES DETERMINE THE COURSE OF A GAME.

I come here as a coach to tell everyone that I absolutely control the game and how it's played by my girls. They respond directly to my influence, how I respond to them and the officials and the manner in which I give directions. I have never had an official "control" the game. The coaches control the game. If I pump up my girls to play aggressively they will play aggressively. If I pump up my 4th graders they will foul more. My 8th grade AAU select team has a better understanding of what MY definition of aggressive is and how to accomplish it out on the court. Do they know what they can get away with and what they can't? Usually. I have also taught them to be aware of what is being called early in the game.

The way the players respond on the court and how they play is the direct responsibility of the coach. I'm not being some suck up coach here either, trying to get on the good side of the officials. I know the limitations and the abilities of each of my players. I know who fouls based on lack of talent and skill and who fouls because they were just being stupid that moment. My 8th graders don't "reach", my 4th graders reach constantly, always and do it even when I tell them to play defense by moving their body, not using their hands. My 8th graders don't reach because they have learned the art of footwork and how to move, my 4th graders chase, a lot.

This is a sore point of mine. I am so tired of listening to other coaches and parents, even ones on my own team, harp about lack of calls, too many calls, etc. Last night I had to endure the calls of parents to "call it both ways" at least a hundred times. My girls just fouled yesterday. They fouled on offense and on defense. The other team did too. Both teams were hyper, aggressive and out of control. Both teams had fouls. I took out one of my players when she wouldn't stop acting like we were playing football. She was surprised. Did she foul on purpose? No, of course not, but she did realize what I wanted after I took her out and explained you can't hug the other team.

I'll get off my coaching soap box now. I small vent to be sure, but at least I had a captive audience! Now if I could only convince my parents that the little girl on the other team did not bite little Sally on purpose I will have achieved a miracle.

Thanks for listening to a coach.

Coach Gbert

This kind of venting, we can handle!

I'm often surprised by which topics generate the most responses. This is one such surprise.

If the coach had not mentioned his team was boys, I would have sworn he was talking about my 7th Grade Girls "travel" game last night. I wish I had been paid by the whistle. Even with a 10-point lead and seconds to go, the teams were pressing. And of course they were fouling. As others noted, they were not good enough. It's that simple. I had several parents (during the game) thank me for calling so many fouls (on their team.) I told them it would make no difference. It did not.

Coaches can complain all they want about the refs. We don't miss the layups. We don't only dribble to the right because we have no skills to dribble left. We don't form a scrum around the ball because we are not taught how to spread the court. I listened to coaches yelling for 32 minutes of stopped time "Don't foul" as the girls were reaching, grabbing, slapping, clutching and pushing.

And...when one team lost by 10 points, two parents came up to me to tell me it was the most biased officiating they had ever seen. Of course, it's the ref's fault. It couldn't possibly be anything else.

"Oh, so you weren't at my game last week?"

Oh, so it was YOU who didn't call the same things last week that I called this week according to the coach. ;)

Don't you just want to:
 

As a ref in a game where neither team can play, foul after foul, turnover after turnover, all parents yelling like little children, when there daughter hacks or grabs and you call a foul, they yell" your being picky". When there daughter has a hand placed on her they yell, "get the hands off, thats a foul, don't you know the rules"! Just one time after their daughter misses a wide open lay up don't you just want to run over to them and yell back, "I guess thats my fault also".....just courious if any of you have thought about doing this!!

Re: Don't you just want to:
 

No, I actually want to yell at them, "Grow up! Where do you think your daughter learns her bad habits, but from you?" But I never do.

Re: Don't you just want to:
 

Sure! And as soon as one of them posts here - I might!

If a coach is reasonable
 

Most referee's will listen to a coach who is reasonable. If both coaches felt like the game was out of hand, then it is possible that between periods the coaches could have approached the officials in a respectful manner and discussed the issue, stressing that both coaches were here and that they mutually agreed that the game should be called tighter for the safety of the participants.

I would certainly listen to a discussion like that and I hope that most reasonable referee's would as well.

Re: If a coach is reasonable
 

I've got to believe that if both coaches agreed, they would simply ratchet back their players, not approach the officials. I've never seen a high school game where both coaches agree with each other that their players are getting mugged and the officials are doing nothing about it.

About the only place I can think of where such a situation you describe might possibly happen would be a very young age rec program where the official is a fill-in HS kid with little officiating experience and a reluctant whistle. And once again, if the coaches agree with each other, they have the power to ratchet back their kids under a mutual agreement to do so. Don't hold your breath on this one, however.