Was asked a question by one of our senior officials tonight. With .3 on the clock a throw in is tipped by the defence and the ball goes in the basket. Would you count the basket as it was tipped by the defence and not tapped by the offence? He seemed to think it was not a try so it wouldn't count. I felt it was a live ball that was in play when touched by a player on the court and would count even though the offence didn't tap it for a try. What do you all say.

No basket. Since its not a try the ball will be become dead when the horn sounds (ball in the air).

Good answer Snake~eyes. Thanks

Agree with Snake-Eyes. The defensive tip is a dead ball on the horn.

Your question doesn't really say for sure, but if the ball isn't through the basket when the horn goes off, it doesn't count. If the ball is through the basket before the horn(unlikely), it does count. If it is counted, it gets credited to the other <b>team</b>.

Iow, same answer as the NFHS forum, Ed. :)

next question. If the horn goes off and the ball is inside the basket and the defender was the one who tipped it, do we count it?

Also, if the thrower-in were to get the ball in the basket WITHOUT defense tipping it, which it sounds like might have happened, that's a violation, anyway. So the basket wouldn't have counted in any case.

once the throw in is tipped, the throw in is over. Without the horn or a whistle, count the basket (2 points).

No the ball must have passed completely through the net in order for it to count by rule. I sure hope that never happens to me :eek:!

All I can say is your better not hope its a one or 2 point ball games. YIKES.

Then, if the ball is tipped by the offense before the horn, and then gets caught in a *hung-up* net after, or during, the horn, then the basket does not count?
mick

If offense tipped it, its a try and can count
 

If its a try, the game isn't over until the shot is over even if it is in the air and not through the net when the horn goes off. If the defense tips it, it is not a "try" and the ball is dead when the horn goes off.

Similar case on someone shooting at the wrong basket, gets fouled, then the ball goes in. The basket doesn't count because it was not a try and the ball is dead as soon as the foul occurs.

I do not have my rule book in front of me but I believe a field goal is scored when the ball (a) passes through or (b) remains in the basket.

So in the case it gets stuck it counts.

By extension I would count a basket once the ball enters it if the horn goes off on a non-try.

That's my reading of it, too -- that is, A goal is made WHEN (this is the time reference to compare to the horn) the ball enters the basket and (meaning, i think, as long as, or provided that, the ball then) remains in or passes through.

If the timing was menat to be otherwise, the wording would be, "A goal is made when a live ball remains in or passes through the basket from above."

Of course, I'm "certain" that this case wasn't considered when the specific words were written.

Sorry but this is wrong. Think about the Rip Hamilton dunk last year that hit him in the head and went right back up through the goal. The basket didn't count and play continued. It has to pass completely through meaning net and all to be counted as a basket.

Don't be sorry. You didn't make the rule, but please would you show me the corresponding NFHS rule and how it is the same or different from the NBA rule?
Thanks.
mick

Rule 5 Section 1 Art. 1- A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and REMAINS IN or passes through.

I consider the net part of the goal and so if a player dunks the ball and it hits him in the head without clearing the net and go back up through the goal I would consider that as NOT remaining in the goal and just let play continue.

That's correct. The net is part of the basket.

But, is the timing such that the ball must be determined to remain in or pass through before the buzzer in order to count? OR, must it merely enter before the buzzer and then remain in or pass through? That's the question in this thread.

I consider the net part of the goal and so if a player dunks the ball and <font color = red>it hits him in the head without clearing the net</font> and go back up through the goal I would consider that as NOT remaining in the goal and <font color = red>just let play continue</font>. [/B][/QUOTE]I would consider reading and learning the definition of basket interference instead if I were you. Rule 4-6-1 to be exact. If you do that, then you just might be able to make the <b>correct</b> call if you ever encounter the play that you described above. If a player dunks the ball andit hits him in the head without clearing the net, that player just committed basket interference(even in the .....wait for it....SEC. :) It doesn't matter where the ball goes after it hit the dunker in the head; the ball is immediately dead because of the offensive BI. Play does not continue.

You're right. Sorry.

Geeze, no need to be sorry. We all get one one wrong every now and then.

On that Rip Hamilton play, didn't they stop play on that one too because of the offensive BI? I thought it was the same call under NBA rules, but.... I really don't know the NBA rules worth a damn.

Yes they did stop play. I just mispoke when I said let play continue. I guess I should say i mistyped

Again, there are two possibilities by rule: passing through or remaining in. Neither occured in the situation you mentioned where if it strikes a player's head and comes back out. In NF a ball that goes in the basket and comes back out is not a goal. However, since the basket will count if the ball remains in, then I will count the goal as soon as the ball enters and will not wait until after it completely passes through (so long as it does not come back out.)

[Mind you I do not think I can really distinguish between a ball in the basket and having passed through anyway!]

Again, there are two possibilities by rule: passing through or remaining in. Neither occured in the situation you mentioned where if it strikes a player's head and comes back out. In NF a ball that goes in the basket and comes back out is not a goal. However, since the basket will count if the ball remains in, then I will count the goal as soon as the ball enters and will not wait until after it completely passes through (so long as it does not come back out.)

[Mind you I do not think I can really distinguish between a ball in the basket and having passed through anyway!]
[/B][/QUOTE]Are you saying that you <b>wouldn't</b> call BI in the sitch where the ball struck a dunker's head while the ball was still within the net and the ball then came back out? :confused:

Are you saying that you <b>wouldn't</b> call BI in the sitch where the ball struck a dunker's head while the ball was still within the net and the ball then came back out? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

No I said I would not count the basket because the ball did not pass through or stay in. Whether this is BI or not is another topic. (There is an exception to BI that dunking or stuffing does not qualify as BI. It is debateable whether hitting your own head would qualify for the exception or not. However, I do not think we should get off topic.)

How is it debatable? It's BI to touch the ball while it's in or on the basket. The exception applies to the hand that carries the ball into the basket. The exception does not apply to the player's head.

Rip Hamilton's play was BI in the NBA, and would also be BI in NCAA/FED.

True the exception rule is written using the word "hand". However, if taken literally, it would mean that a player who wraps the ball in their arm while dunking would be guilty of BI since the arm is not the hand.

The philosophy of the exception comes at the end with the words "Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference." Since these words are in there, it is clear that the intention of the exception should perhaps go beyond contact with the hand.

This means IMO that the exception does not cover interesting situations like the one of the head and so it would be an interesting debate to discuss the intention of the exception versus what happened.

One could argue that any contact with the body that is part of the dunk is allowable including hitting your own head.

One could also argue that the head was contacted after the ball entered and the basket and so it should be treated differently than contact before.

Of course if you respond to this with further arguments about it being BI then you will have to admit that it is debateable since you will be in fact debating it.

I told you it wasn't debatable. :shrug: