last night at a JV girls game. 2 man crew. my partner had just called a foul on the visiting team and was reporting that foul to the scorer. while he was doing that the home team coach told him the visiting team had the wrong starters listed in the scorebook. so, my partner (the R last night) whistled a T for the visiting team for having the wrong starters in. the visiting coach was holding his book in his hand and showed my partner the starters he had listed in his book, which were different from the official scorebook. my partner said that wasn't the "official" book. then the coach looked at me asking for help. i said the same thing my partner said, that isn't the "official" book. so, we shot the T.

at half, the AD of the home team told my partner he should have showed the "official" book to both coaches prior to the start of the game. i told my partner i've never seen that done at any level and that it's the coach's responsibility to make sure the correct players, numbers and starters are in the "official" book.

has any of you ever showed the "official" book to each coach prior to the start of a game?

I've never done it, but I know from other replies on this forum that it's common practice in some places. In fact, some officials have the head coach initial the official book after it's been filled in.

I have never done that. Normally the home coach has his starters listed in the Official Book and the visiting coach has his starters listed in his unofficial book and the two are compared. Now if he starts the wrong guys, than that his fault and his T!

1) If the visitors book is what the visiting coach gave the official book to copy from, then I wouldn't T.

2) Once the game has started, it's too late to T for this infraction anyway.

That's what I would have asked. A lot of times the visiting book is what the visitors give the home book to copy. But if not, ask to see the roster or whatever was give that indicated the starters. If the home scorer had copied it wrong, that's sure not visitors' fault.

Here in Baton Rouge we bring the official book to each coach and have them check the book and initial to ensure that this sort of thing doesnt happen. Also if someone plays who isnt listed or a wrong number is listed the T is so shocking. I find it has helped here in LA.

missed it...
 

so, we were incorrect to charge a T for this? the game had started and i believe about 30 seconds ran off the clock before this was discovered.

Re: missed it...
 

Correct, it's too late. 10-1-2a PENALTY 2a.

Re: missed it...
 

Can't call it after the becomes live, John. Rule 10-1-1PENALTY- "penalized when it occurs".

Yes- mostly because it is a sub-varsity game. Im my part of the country we try to correct problems like this and move on.

Example- JV game Sat. The visiting coach has all wrong numbers in the book for each player. Well they played Friday evening in road uniforms spent a night in a hotel and were wearing home uniforms the next day. I was happy they didn't smell, fixed the numbers by one and away we went.

Yes there was plenty of preventitive things we could have done but again, players and coaches deserve a break at the sub-varsity level. There was no intent just a long night in a hotel and a 350 mile bus ride each way.

I can't tell from what you wrote if you already know this or not, but you would only give one T to the team, even tho you changed all 12 numbers in the book.

When you said "all the numbers" and "deserve a break", it sounded a little as though you thought that you would've had to assess 12 T's (one for each change in the book). But that's not correct. Just trying to clear it up for anyone who might have misunderstood.

I recently picked it up and like the "habit".

if any book technical follows - your better off. Also gives you a chnce to "present yourself" to the coach in an official manner before the game starts and have a little smalltalk.

Exactly correct ref daddy, that is precisely what we do here in baton rouge

I always do it for V games. In one instance, the visiting coach noticed a discrepancy in the numbers in the official (home) book. We checked and the visiting number had been copied wrong. We had it corrected and started the game. My philosophy is that the visitors are required to submit correct numbers. If they are copied wrong, then there should be no penalty. This all goes under the heading of preventive officiating. As was mentioned above, it shows the coaches that you are making sure things are correct and it gives you an opportunity to make contact with the coaches.

The point I was making was that there is a difference between Varsity and sub varsity games. Often there is uniform differences (freshman uniform worn for sophmore game)etc. The point is to let the kids play. Don't get me wrong, I point out the difference but we aren't going to shoot T's all over the place for administrative things.

I also know we aren't shooting 12 T's for an administrative problem.

Actually, in this case it's not a "philosophy" and it's also got nuthin' to do with "preventive officiating". It's just simply the <b>rule</b>. As per NFHS rule 10-1, all either team is required to do is supply the official scorer with their roster and starters at least 10 minutes before the start of the game. All we do is make sure that they comply with that provision. Anything further, such as this, is a "scorer's mistake" that can be corrected at any time.

Glad to see the Fed rules makers are on the same page as me!

Actually, that's not HIS T, it's a team T, and is NOT charged to the HC, directly or indirectly.

how about asking at the meeting with the coach: "Coach, you happy with how the players and starters in the book?" Right before the "Are your players properly equipped and will they exhibit sporting behaviour" question. Or right after. Whichever you want. :)

Check the book early.
 

We used to have a coach in our conference that would identify problems in the book before the game started (Visiting coach has not listed his players or not identified starters). Then the coach would occupy the visiting coach in small talk etcetera until the officials show up somewhere past the 10 minute mark. He would then, with a dung-eating grin, demand a Technical foul to start the game. (True Sportmanship!)

So I have made it a habit to check the book before the 10 minute mark - say 11-12 minutes, and to request corrections be made if the book is not complete before I am placed in a position requiring a T. It has worked well.

Re: Check the book early.
 

I agree. I usually go to the table right around the 12:00 minute mark.

I hope you responded to that coach with "Coach, basketball is a competitive sport played between two competing teams, not an exercise in trickery and technicalities by coaches. Not only am I not T'ing the other coach, but I am warning you that that kind of unsportsmanlike conduct in trying to create a T might just get you one. I dont want to see that again. Lets play basketball, shall we?"

Of course, as stated, checking the book as recommended at the 12 minute mark is always best. I'm with you guys on that.