How to Handle a Vet?

[tarheelcoach]

I just got into officiating after coaching for years (I still coach as well), and during our pre-season games the vet I was working with was still following old rules instead of the new ones. I know because I've coached at that level before, and because I spent the day before studying the new rules.
But I went along with him because he was the lead official, I was told to 'learn from him'.

What's the best way to approach your partner when you know he is wrong?

Also, a similar question - During a game I was coaching this situation came up and started thinking like an official and wasn't sure how I would handle it -
One of my players drove to the lane and slammed into the defender (an obvious charge I'll admit!) The lead called nothing, but after a moment, the trail blew his whistle and called the charge. Should the trail have made this call even though technically it wasn't his area?

[truerookie]

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
I just got into officiating after coaching for years (I still coach as well), and during our pre-season games the vet I was working with was still following old rules instead of the new ones. I know because I've coached at that level before, and because I spent the day before studying the new rules.
But I went along with him because he was the lead official, I was told to 'learn from him'.

What's the best way to approach your partner when you know he is wrong?

Also, a similar question - During a game I was coaching this situation came up and started thinking like an official and wasn't sure how I would handle it -
One of my players drove to the lane and slammed into the defender (an obvious charge I'll admit!) The lead called nothing, but after a moment, the trail blew his whistle and called the charge. Should the trail have made this call even though technically it wasn't his area?

1. Did you conduct a pre-game with him/her before the contest? What I have learn posting on this forum take what Veteran says keep what you want to keep discard what you do not and Keep your mouth SHUT!!

2. The trail held his/her whistle to see if the Lead would make the call. The T demonstrated what we call a patience whistle.

3. Welcome to the avocation.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
During a game I was coaching this situation came up and started thinking like an official and wasn't sure how I would handle it [!]

I love this sentence -- it's a classic!!

About handling vets, the best thing to do is to sound out their personality very gently, and then respond accordingly. The very best ones want to be corrected when it's necessary, but a lot of us can't always handle it. Pre-gaming helps a lot. If someone says in pre-game, "I can't be bothered with all the piddling little rule changes" you know where you stand. In an important play, with a very wrong call, you might try one little "What did you see?" or "I thought there was a tip", but other than that, let him stand/fall on his own game.

Regarding primary areas, the most importnat thing is to get the call right. If lead is blocked out, or is looking elsewhere, it's fine for trail to call if, if she's 100% sure. Then both officials have to justify the call to the world by saying, "She was screened out, coach, I had a great angle" and "She was watching my back coach, while I concentrated on the key." Even if you think your trail was totally wrong, you must be 100% on her side by saying, "Coach, I had my hands full with 24 and 33. We are a team, and we help each other as necessary" or something vague like that.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by tarheelcoach

What's the best way to approach your partner when you know he is wrong?


After the game, show him a case play or rule in the book that directly contradicts his ruling and say, "Am I misunderstanding the application here? I noticed that you handled it differently." If he has a hint of decency, he'll own up to his mistake.


One of my players drove to the lane and slammed into the defender (an obvious charge I'll admit!) The lead called nothing, but after a moment, the trail blew his whistle and called the charge. Should the trail have made this call even though technically it wasn't his area?


Depending on where the drive originated, this might have actually been the trail's call to make. That being said, it sounds like a call that the trial needs to come and make even if it was a little out of their primary (got to get the train wrecks).


Z

[JRutledge]

How you handle a vet is going to depend on the vet you are dealing with. There is no one size fits all model to this or any other situation. If the vet is down to earth and you can talk openly about the calls they make, you probably can bring up the play and discuss the rule. If you are dealing with someone that does not like to talk about the game, I probably would let it go. How I talk to a vet would depend on what kind of success that officials has had in their career and where they are in their career today. Some guys would have no problem openly talking about what they called and others will bite your head off. What you need to learn to do is read which type of person you are dealing with and find a happy medium. If you are newer to officiating, I am sure it is really safe to say you are not dealing with the highest profile veteran around either. So how you approach an official that is not considered one of the best in the association is very different than dealing with someone that has been around 20 years and worked multiple state finals. I know the fact that this was a two man game from where I am from that would also mean you are not likely working with the most experienced veteran. All veterans are not made the same nor have the same knowledge of the game. A guy that has been working for 4 or 5 years is a veteran too, but that does not mean they are on the same level as a 10 or 15 year officials that has been working big time games for most of their career.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally posted by JRutledge
How you handle a vet is going to depend on the vet you are dealing with. There is no one size fits all model to this or any other situation. If the vet is down to earth and you can talk openly about the calls they make, you probably can bring up the play and discuss the rule. If you are dealing with someone that does not like to talk about the game, I probably would let it go. How I talk to a vet would depend on what kind of success that officials has had in their career and where they are in their career today. Some guys would have no problem openly talking about what they called and others will bite your head off. What you need to learn to do is read which type of person you are dealing with and find a happy medium. If you are newer to officiating, I am sure it is really safe to say you are not dealing with the highest profile veteran around either. So how you approach an official that is not considered one of the best in the association is very different than dealing with someone that has been around 20 years and worked multiple state finals. I know the fact that this was a two man game from where I am from that would also mean you are not likely working with the most experienced veteran. All veterans are not made the same nor have the same knowledge of the game. A guy that has been working for 4 or 5 years is a veteran too, but that does not mean they are on the same level as a 10 or 15 year officials that has been working big time games for most of their career.

Peace

A young official with good people skills (including tact and a non-accusatory way) should be able to point out the correct rule to the "veteran official" without causing a scene. I have never met a veteran official who wouldn't want to know that he was screwing up a rule. He may get defensive if a young ref pointed it out with all the grace of bull in a China shop, but that is a problem with the delivery, not the message.

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


A young official with good people skills (including tact and a non-accusatory way) should be able to point out the correct rule to the "veteran official" without causing a scene. I have never met a veteran official who wouldn't want to know that he was screwing up a rule. He may get defensive if a young ref pointed it out with all the grace of bull in a China shop, but that is a problem with the delivery, not the message.

Z

That all sounds great, but I do know veterans that would have a problem with being told just about anything.

Look, all a veteran means is someone that has worked more than a year. All veterans are not good officials or have what it takes to be a good official. There are all kinds of veterans and frankly many that will never be that good at all. So you can have all the people skills and you still will never make some people happy. I know there are coaches that way. Officials are not that different either.

Peace

[tomegun]

Should we make a thread entitled "how to handle a rookie?"

Different people will react and respond differently. Do your best and learn.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
I just got into officiating after coaching for years (I still coach as well), and during our pre-season games the vet I was working with was still following old rules instead of the new ones. I know because I've coached at that level before, and because I spent the day before studying the new rules.
But I went along with him because he was the lead official, I was told to 'learn from him'.

What's the best way to approach your partner when you know he is wrong?

As others have pointed out, it takes different kinds of approaches for different kinds of people. One thing I will add as a way of encouragement for the newer officials is my advice that you NOT officiate a contest by applying improper rules. None of us is perfect, so be humble about your rules knowledge, but when you *know* a rule, apply *that* rule to the contest you are officiating.

Also, a similar question - During a game I was coaching this situation came up and started thinking like an official and wasn't sure how I would handle it -
One of my players drove to the lane and slammed into the defender (an obvious charge I'll admit!) The lead called nothing, but after a moment, the trail blew his whistle and called the charge. Should the trail have made this call even though technically it wasn't his area?

The call was right. That's the job of the officiating team. What is there to "handle" here?

[stmaryrams]

No matter who I'm working with vet or rookie, I want to know where we could have done better or been more consistent on our calls.

I try to talk it over at half or a short anything you saw we should watch for between quarters. I'll even do a post game with my partner/s about specific things we saw for future games.

Anyone who does not want to be given advice about the misinterpretation of a rule (changed or otherwise) is not doing their job. Even the best officials miss calls and can still learn from the game.

[sleebo]

I have noticed thus far that one should converse with the veteran official and listen to his/her conversations with others in order to find out their mentality when it comes to interacting with partners and fellow officials. Sometimes, as others have noted, vets get a big head or get complacent. If they are complacent, they do not want to know what they might not care if they messed up, so long as things stay the way they want them to in terms of association status and game assignments. However, most all of us have a certain sense of pride about officiating and want to get as many of our plays right as possible. In the same sense, it is hard to change a knowledgeable person's mind regardless of your expertise or experience.