What do y'all do when the the defender jabs at the shooter's midsection, but doesn't make contact. You know the shooter may very well flinch, throwing the shot off, but there is no contact.

I had it happen last night, and wasn't quite sure what to do.

I got nothing. In fact, I got nothing even if there's a little contact. If I see a poke connect, the defender gets a very menacing "Hands off the shooter!" Then, the next time might be a foul, depending on whether it affects the shooter.

I have not personally had to deal with this yet, but my partner did handle the exact situation in a game this year - JV boys.

Partner calls a foul - awards two shots. Kid says he didn't touch him. Partner explained he "saw" a foul...told him not to do it again or it would be T. Didn't happen the rest of the game.

So, in essence, he called a foul (as he "saw" it) to give the kid a break and not call a T. I have no problem with how he handled it. I would also have no problem with calling a T as an unsporting act...i.e. faking a hit / strike / punch...whatever you want to call it. (Not exactly the same, but perhaps similar, to how you would handle a situation where a player drew their fist back and faked a swing at someone.)

Interested to hear how others view it.

Please don't even think of ever throwing a ballplayer out of a game just for jabbing at a shooter. A strike/punch is a flagrant act, by definition, and you'd have to toss the defender if you called that. A call like that would be a career breaker. No contact = no foul. Jabbing at a shooter's midsection ain't even close to being an unsporting "T" either imo. Jabbing at their eyes....maybe. There's a heckuva difference though.

If the jab is at the shooter's midsection, I doubt very much that the shooter even noticed it if there was no contact. The shooter would be looking at the basket.

Over-officious imo, guys.

Jurassic - I understand your point and agree, in so much as how you explained the difference in the faking a punch and jabbing actions.

However, I see jabbing at the "midsection" as a possible T depending on the play. By midsection we may actually be talking groin area. Jabbing at someone - a jump shooter in the air - at their groin section can certainly affect a shooter, IMO, whether or not there is contact. I think it could easily and justifiably be called a T.

Again, I agree with how you separated my two examples. I still like the way my partner handled our specific situation. If it was unclear, the jab in question when my partner called the foul was at the groin area...on a jump shooter...and it was close to contact. I can understand jabbing from 5 or 6 feet away being a no-call. Depends on the exact play.

Can't have a foul in this sitch without contact. I'd have a hard time with a T here too. I think I'd just tell the player to not do it again. That should take care of it.

Z

It might be a good idea on your part to run this play by whoever is training/evaluating officials in your area and get their opinion on it. Or, failing that, maybe talk to your assignor.

All I can tell you is that a "T" on a play like that would not be greeted as really being one of the all-time great calls in any area that I've seen games in. Quite the opposite aamf.....

Jurassic - Got it. Good suggestion. I will run it by some vets and rules interp. in my chapter.

Z - what if telling him to knock it off doesn't work? What if he still does it? I don't want to (and will not) tell anyone to stop doing anything unless I have something to do about it (or call) if they continue. Otherwise, IMO, you lose credibility.

I can understand your choice to just tell them to stop it. But what do you do if they don't?

Well, we can "what if" all day. I have never had a player ignore a request like that.

However, if he didn't knock it off you could move on to something more drastic. Maybe a T, but more likely a quick conversation with his coach (who would surely take care of it).

Z

Z - Telling the coach to have the player stop is a good possible solution. I know we can "what if" all day. But I don't think those are unreasonable questions that I asked. I guess the bottom line questions is...

If jabbing at an opponents midsection (my scenario - an airborne shooters groin area) isn't wrong, then why tell the player (or the coach) that the player has to stop it?

If this action is wrong, what do you call? Or what violation or foul are you telling the player to stop? In my view, it is possibly a T. Again, depending on the specific play.

I guess you and I may end up at the same destination (a possible T). We may just take different roads to get there.

I'm going to warn on a fake jab or punch, and then T it if it happens again. This is one of those areas not specifically covered by the rules that I have discretion on.

And it IS unsportsmanlike. I'm confused as to why anyone would suggest otherwise. It is done in an attempt to gain an advantage, and it doesn't have any place in basketball.

A "fake punch" isn't covered under the rules? It sureasheck is. A "fake punch" is considered "fighting" as per rule 4-18-1, and it is an automatic flagrant technical foul and disqualification as per rule 10-3-9. There is <b>no</b> discretion at all involved in that particular call. If you call a "fake punch", somebody better be heading for the bench- permanently.

You guys are getting completely carried away on this one imo. You're trying to kill a gnat with "Weapons of Mass Destruction". :eek:

This jab is not like boxing, in fact jab is not a very good description, poke is better.

I call it tagging the shooter, that little poke, will get a knock that crap off the first time, I've called a fouls on those who did not heed the warning.

JR,
To me 4-18-1 more describes a miss than a fake. Where does the fake morph to a miss? Cocking it or pulling it? :)
mick

IMO, it would depend on the discreation of the official about how severe the Poke/jab is. As stated an attempt to Punch is definately covered in the rules regardless of contact. These so called touch or tap attempts deserve a warning for sure.