I am going to be a college graduate soon and I am currently looking for a new job. Any suggestions about how I should let my employer know my dreams about becoming a referee at a higher level which could cause me to be out the of the office. Right now I work high school as well as small college basketball. I don't want to plan my career around officiating but I would like to be able to mesh the two if at all possible. Any advice would be appreciated.

Yeah, be self-employed. :)

Don't tell a prospective employer that you have plans to be out of the office working at a different job. :eek: You might try looking for a position where "being out of the office" is already a part of the job. Even then, if you get caught officiating when you should be working or you're not giving your new job your full attention, believe me, your new employer ain't gonna be too happy with you when he finds out. Employers want to know that the job that they're giving you is your #1 priority, not officiating. Jmo, but if you bring up anything at all about trying to fit officiating into the hours required to do your regular job, the first thing that you're gonna hear from your job interviewer is "Thank you, we'll be in touch". Get established in your new career first- before you even think of broaching the topic of time-off to officiate.

There are some jobs that are conducive to making up your own schedule. These include policeman, fireman, etc. Those are all worthy vocations too imo.

Good luck and best wishes to you, anyway, no matter what you do- in both your future job <b>and</b> your future officiating career.

Not that it has any relation to future careers, but what was your major during college? What sort of jobs did you have that you found interesting?

If you're a Liberal Arts major, you'll have plenty of time to ref since it's easy to find someone to fill in for you to make fries.

I will be getting a BS in Computer Engineering this spring. I was thinking of maybe staying in school and continue to officiate in hopes time will allow me to find a job that fits my needs. As well as my officiating needs.

I'm going to type out of both sides of my keyboard now:

Someday you will have a spouse and family and a mortgage to pay. And then I would remember:

The day job pays the mortgage, unless you are lucky enough to big a big-time official. Don't do anything in your day job that will jeopardize your ability to pay those bills. I took three years off working certain sports in order to focus on my career. No regrets.

But, you're in school now and have a good major. So, I would give a different piece of advice:

When I took my previous job here in Wisconsin, I was open and honest about my passion for officiating. My big concern was during baseball season -- I wanted to be able to work earlier hours and have time to work a full high school and college schedule.

When the first spring rolled around I started to get scheduled for late afternoon meetings and I had a meeting with my boss where I reminded her of my conversation with her the previous year, she couldn't believe I was serious about putting umpiring on a level close to my job. That's when the new job hunt started.

But now I'm in a position where I have to travel around the country pretty frequently and have had to turn back a fair number of games and I don't mind as much because I like my job and the flexibility it allows when I *am* home. For me officiating is about quality, not quantity. I only work varsity dates in baseball and basketball, not because I think I'm too good to work the lower levels, but because I have other things I want to squeeze in, like job and family.

In your position, grad school is a great place to look -- you can schedule everything around your officiating and officiate as much as you want while earning a master's degree or PhD. I did that for a couple of years.

As far as climbing the ladder and needing off more time a few years from now, I wouldn't even bring that up. If you are fortunate enough to work D-I basketball, for example, you can worry about this then and, if necessary, change jobs.

--Rich

Personally, I thought Political Science grads cooked the fires. Liberal Arts grads flip the burgers! :D

PolySci falls under liberal arts. So does Economics (at least at some schools), which is the degree I have. Never cooked a fry in my life -- at least not professionally, though I have had resturants as clients. Does that count?

I will give a word of advice to a soon to be graduate from someone that was in a similar situation. When I graduated I took the money and did not consider any other factors when I took my job. For me that was a big mistake. I would have rather considered more of what my life would be outside of my job as well. I do not have any kids or any other responsibilities but myself. So I can officiate or hang out all the time on my days off if I see fit. That is not the same when you have kids and a family to answer to. I admit that I work my job to spend time doing other things and officiating is a big part of my life right now. In this current economy you are likely to change jobs several times over you life time. So this job that you might have will not be there in a few years or you will have much bigger opportunities. I know many officials that have lost their jobs to layoffs, corporate downsizing, department changes, position changes and any other corporate world stuff you can think of. This is really the case if all you have is just a Bachelors Degree and a company is starting you out at the bear bottom entry level position. If you get a Masters Degree you will have a better chance at choices. Even a Masters gives you a guarantee at anything. The person that got me started in officiating got his Master's Degree in Financing soon after he started me in basketball. Guess what he is doing today? Absolutely nothing as it comes to his Master's Degree. He is now a casino dealer making more than most salaried employees I know. He is also doing a little teaching on and for a college through the internet. So basically the job he was wanting out of college has never materialized and he is making more money than many people that got a degree in the very same program. Life is about twists and turns, take advantage of whatever skill you have now before it is too late if you are willing to sacrifice to get there.

BTW, I was a Political Science Major in college and that is what I have a degree in. The jobs I was offered before graduation had nothing to do with that major and every job I have had since has never had a thing to do with that major either.

I would not go in making demands, but I would ask a lot of questions to see if how much your officiating will be limited if you take a particular job. Way the pros and cons based on what is important to you and make decisions. Do what is best for you, not what is important to other people. You will have to live with your decisions. The reality is most jobs are not going to hinder your officiating that much if you are working games during the nights and weekends. We all have job limits and you will have some limits.

Peace

I am a systems programmer. I work 4 10-hour days and I can choose my work hours. One of my days is a telecommute day from home. It is a great schedule for an official.

Many computer companies are going more and more to telecommuting and flexible job schedules. However, I wouldn't bring that up when you are just starting.

IMHO, take the best job offered to you without factoring in your officiating. After you are established at the company, see if you can get a flexible schedule that allows you to ref.

Z

What a coincidence....that's what Padgett has :p

Unless he's upgraded to an MS (more of the same) or a PhD (piled higher and deeper)

(apologies to Bob Knight) :D

Thanks for all input

I'm in education, so it's a little different, but I include my officiating on my resume. Most employers will want to know about your outside interests. I try to update each year, including how many seasons I have worked and the class levels of my varsity (and eventually college games hopefully). I would think they don't see many officials come through on their resumes so it might separate you from the pack a little. I wouldn't let them know about your big time asprations as that is probably in the future a few years, so just talk about what you are currently doing.

I have also put my officiating on the resume. It is after all just like a job. I set schedules. I make appointments. I have to fill out paperwork and keep track of records. Everything I do is very similar. It also makes the topic of officiating come up and people that are hiring like to talk about what I have done. Also when there hear how successful I have been and what it took to become successful, I have been hired on those terms. It really works for sales and management positions. Not very many people can compare to how you handle very hostile situations (and people) as an official. That definitely sets you apart from the average person you are interviewing against.

Peace

Officiating is possible even in software
 

I have been in the software industry for 10 years, it is possible to do both, but you need to be carefull.

First and foremost, you need to decide where you want to work. Some companies work flextime, others don't. Some have certain expected office hours and some don't.

When I was working my way up, I would often work the 6AM-2:30 PM shift so I could make an afternoon game. So long as my work was completed on time, it worked out OK. Once you have a full varsity HS schedule the time needs aren't as bad.

Depending where you are, college might present new travel restrictions that may require you to take peronsal or vacation time.

The most important thing to realize is that you are hired to do a job. Officiating might be important to you but it isn't to the company. If you do your job and officiating keeps you happy, then it will work out.

Some of the tips mentioned above make sense... put officiating on your resume but don't talk about the time needed directly. Feel out the ability to work from home, flextime or how work is measured (look for flexibility).

Not the best advice. Never put personal interests on your resume. These only disqualify you. They never get you a job - unless you are a world class bridge player or golfer, etc., and you know the boss is looking for a ringer for the company team or free lessons.

Most employers think you should spend 24x7 on their job, and want people who have no outside life (with the exception of those who need a certain percentage to be involved with charitable work to qualify for some tax break or another.)

As someone who had hired many, and reviewed hundreds of resumes for 4 companies, take my word for it.

Ditto. They are a waste of space. When I look at a resume and see personal stuff on there, I am thinking "This person must be short on job attributes if they are putting all this stuff on their resume". On the other hand, sometimes you can slip something like that in there if you have other certifications. For example, I have a designation in my field that I could put as a certification, and I could put IAABO as another certification. But you do not want to make a big deal of it.

I was always under the impression that HR people that hired salesman like people with a sporting background. Though they were more aggressive, out-going, assertive.

I am a sales manager. That is not the case. But even for other types of positions, personal interests are a no-no.

I'll remember that if I am ever desparate to be hired.

But since I've always looked for new positions from a position of strength (already employed), I make sure my officiating comes up during the conversation/interview. If they are close-minded about officiating, then they will likely be close-minded about other things as well.

I interviewed for a position last year (before my former boss got the axe and life became more reasonable in my current gig). As part of the interviewing process, I had to give a presentation on anything I chose. I did it on baseball umpiring and brought my gear to the presentation as props.

Later, during the formal interview with the HR person, he mentioned the company had a "no outside income" policy and seemed uneasy with my officiating. I'd like to say that this caused me to turn the job down, but in reality, their offer was substandard and that was the main reason I rejected the offer. Yet their uneasyness with my personal life played a role. All things being equal (money, benefits, etc.), I likely would've turned it down anyway.

There's more to life than work. There's more to life than officiating. Find a place that will let you live that balance.

There are always going to be people that do not like certain things on a resume. That is just the chance you take when you apply for a job. I think you should put your officiating on a resume when you take money and do many things as a job. If you fill out taxes for this activity, it is a job. I want anyone that is hiring me to know the kind of commitment I have made to it and know what kind of skills I have experienced in my life. If you do not want to see something that I make income from, then I would not want to work with you. Not because it might distract from my job, because the things I do in officiating will bring a lot of good things to any job I am working at. Some of the most successful people I know are officials. Part of the reason for that is because a certain type of person will officiate. Not everyone can do officiate a sport.

Funny thing about this I have worked in sales for years. Sales jobs love the fact that I officiate. They want very competitive people and people who can set goals and achieve those goals. You seemed to be unusual in that respect.

Peace

I'm with Rut. I was a little unclear about how I include officiating on my resume. I do not put hobbies and interests on. I also include my officiating under my work experience. I'm not sure exactly the heading I put it under, but I agree that you shouldn't have hobbies and interests on a resume.

I put it in the same place as I do any other job. I will not include all jobs on a resume depending one what type of job I would be applying for. I always put my officiating along with a description of what it entails. I realize that in theory we say officiating is a hobby. In reality is a business where you take money for a service. If you had a business cleaning homes and you ran that business, you would not think twice about including that job on your resume. Officiating I am not going to treat any different. If I make over $1000 a month working games, I think an employer should not only know that but know what skills I have to use to do it. Some people think you just role off the street and work games with no training or skill set.

Peace

That is why I suggested putting it under certifications, professional designations, etc. That elevates it from the "hobby" category. It could even be under "civic" with things like planning commission, zoning board, etc. But, think about it for a moment. If you put down referee or officiating as a hobby or personal interest, it can only serve as an eliminator. If you put down a designation or certification, it can be a conversation starter. You can relate how you handle difficult situations, are detail oriented by having to know the rules, can show how you have people skills that can translate into the workplace, etc. In other words, it is a training ground that uses many skills that can help an individual become an even better employee.

When you take money for it, it is not just a hobby. It is a job or a business. If I have to file taxes for the income I take from it, it is a job not just a hobby. I would not put it under a hobby when I do job like activities while doing it. Officiating might not pay all the bills, but it pays a lot of bills. I know officiating has put many kids through school. I know officials that take on more games when they lose their "day job." It is not just a hobby, it cannot be.

Peace

Rut--Re-read my post. I am not suggesting it be put as a hobby. In fact quite the opposite. I became certified by our state association, therefore I would put IAABO under a section for professional designations or under civic or community involvement. In fact there should NEVER be a section on a resume entitled "Hobbies" or "personal interests" and that is the point I and others were trying to make.

I read exactly what you said the first time. No one but you suggested that it be under the hobby title and I was not commenting on what section you put it under. I am stating that is a job and should be treated just as any other job if you are going to put it on your resume. That is why I keep talking about taking money and filing taxes as an official.

Once again this is all based on the type of job you are going for and the industry standards. I worked at Dominos Pizza when I was in college and I know that would not end up on my resume for any professional job. Not all jobs are relevant or necessary. You put the things that are relevant to the job you are trying to get. At least that is my experience and I have hired people as well. I do not care what people put on their resume as long as some of the skills apply to the job.

Peace

I can see why people get very irritated with you. I have never suggested it be put under hobby. But you are a know-it-all, so therefore I must be wrong.

I did not suggest you said anything. Obviously you do not know how to have a discussion. I was making a point and you attributed everything I said to what you were talking about only. My comments were not about just what you said. If you feel you are wrong than that is something you have to deal with. I did not say anyone was wrong because there is no right or wrong in this discussion. If you do not like people to include a job in a particular category, I am sure there are other people that do not care. Unless any of us are going to try to get hired by you specifically, then all of this is some conjecture and opinion.

If it irritates you because I gave an opinion, then that shows you are not a person that I would want to neither work with nor hire. BTW, I was not the only one that commented about your point of view. I guess it is my fault you do not know how to get your point across.

Peace

Oh my goodness Rut. Many threads contain 10 or more posts by you because nobody can understand the senseless crap you post and the more you explain, the more jumbled it gets. You are criticizing someone else for not getting their point across? Please. Some of your posts either seem to be in another language or posted by a 4-year old. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Z

One would think you'd get the picture after just about everyone here has trouble with your posts as frequently as they do...but I guess you're too dense to even recognize that.

I never, ever thought I'd be doing this. But...

I've had as much trouble as anyone trying to follow Rut's comments over the years. I've been as frustrated as everybody else at having to invest a significant effort unraveling the twisted text to try to understand what he was saying. And yes, I went off at him recently, mostly in a fit of cumulative frustration.

However...

I've always figured he was probably a pretty good official who just wasn't very good at communicating in this medium. I still think that's a pretty accurate assessment.

But I have noticed of late that he's becoming easier to understand. His posts seem less tangled and easier to follow. And yes, I know this last post isn't a shining example (since he obviously got this thread confused with the racial slur thread). But still, I think he's getting better.

And yes, Jeff, I realize you don't care what I think :D

You would be correct.

I am sorry you put stock in people that have no name and no face. Oh well, I guess the priorities in life are in order.
:rolleyes:

Peace