made basket mechanic (or selling)

caliref · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 29, 2005, 11:34pm

Had an interesting conversation with one of my cowokers the other day about when you call a foul and the basket goes in. From what we decided, there are two ways to do it. Either you sell the basket right away (which in turn makes it look like you are watching the basket rather than the play) or you wait for confrence with the other official and then signal the basket was made on your way to the table.... which one do you prefer and why?

blindzebra · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 12:07am

I question why you need to sell it?

If you know it went in, and if you are positioned correctly most times you will see it peripherally, why wait for your partners?

caliref · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 12:34am

Well, my opinion is that if you go with an immediate signal on the made basket it is selling the call. If you wait to get to the table, it't not selling the call.

rainmaker · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 12:44am

I'm with BZ on this one -- why sell it? Either the basket went or it didn't. It's not like convincing a coach that her player did in fact whack the shooter in three different places. You signal the basket as good when you know that it went -- with the preliminary if you see it, or when you report to the table if you wait to be certain. Conferring with your partner is a way to add to your credibility "see, I always do whatever it takes to be sure I get the call right." What's wrong with that?

blindzebra · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 01:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by caliref
Well, my opinion is that if you go with an immediate signal on the made basket it is selling the call. If you wait to get to the table, it't not selling the call.

The officials manual tells you to count it when you know it goes in, it's not selling it, it is doing it correctly.

tjones1 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 01:16am

I agree. No need to sell it, if you know it went it, count it yourself. If you don't know or you're unsure, get help.

TimTaylor · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 01:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm with BZ on this one -- why sell it? Either the basket went or it didn't. It's not like convincing a coach that her player did in fact whack the shooter in three different places. You signal the basket as good when you know that it went -- with the preliminary if you see it, or when you report to the table if you wait to be certain. Conferring with your partner is a way to add to your credibility "see, I always do whatever it takes to be sure I get the call right." What's wrong with that?

I agree also. As lead, if see it go in, I'll signal it immediately - if not I make eye contact with the trail to confirm if it was good or not. Irregardless, I always verbalize it when reporting to the table just to make sure we're all on the same page.

Good to see you tonight Juulie! Interesting pair of games, eh?

Rich · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 02:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by caliref
Had an interesting conversation with one of my cowokers the other day about when you call a foul and the basket goes in. From what we decided, there are two ways to do it. Either you sell the basket right away (which in turn makes it look like you are watching the basket rather than the play) or you wait for confrence with the other official and then signal the basket was made on your way to the table.... which one do you prefer and why?

It gets counted by the calling official every time. It's a rare occasion where a partner needs to help on this. It's not selling -- if you're calling this selling a call, you don't understand what the phrase means.

Snake~eyes · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 03:45am

No need to sell that it goes in, you may need to sell a prelim first (block) then just score it how you like. I score it with a fist, with my non foul calling arm.

On another note, there was one time where I had no clue if it went in because the play was carried far under the basket (I was lead) and I stayed with the play. I went to the table to report and they asked me if it counted, I had to double check with C/T and one of them confirmed it went in.

I now will let my partner verbally know that it went in if I don't see him give the score it signal.

tomegun · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 06:59am

Quote:

[i]On another note, there was one time where I had no clue if it went in because the play was carried far under the basket (I was lead) and I stayed with the play. I went to the table to report and they asked me if it counted, I had to double check with C/T and one of them confirmed it went in.[/B]

I know a lot of veterans will realize this already. The non-calling official(s) should be aware of the calling official counting the basket or not when it goes in. If the calling official is giving the signal for two shots or no signal at all (it happens), the non-calling official(s) should get to them before they get to the table. The verbage should be something to let him/her know the ball went, but it shouldn't be "the basket was good."

ChuckElias · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 09:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Irregardless, I always verbalize it when reporting to the table

Cough, cough. . . Irreg. . . choking. . . Irregar. . . gar. . . room spinning. . . can't breathe. . .

Count it as soon as you know it went in. That's usually as soon as it goes in.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 09:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[/B]

It's not selling -- if you're calling this selling a call, you don't understand what the phrase means. [/B][/QUOTE]Exactly.

You sell a call when you're sure of the call but it's close and someone else might just be a-doubting ya. It tells the world "Screw you- I got that one right!" On a basket though, it either went in or it didn't go in.

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 09:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by TimTaylor
Irregardless, I always verbalize it when reporting to the table

Cough, cough. . . Irreg. . . choking. . . Irregar. . . gar. . . room spinning. . . can't breathe. . .

Count it as soon as you know it went in. That's usually as soon as it goes in.

Fwiw, Chuck, the word "irregardless" appears in the text of the NFHS rule book. It's verbalized in print several times.

Rich · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 30, 2005, 10:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

It's not selling -- if you're calling this selling a call, you don't understand what the phrase means. [/B]

Exactly.

You sell a call when you're sure of the call but it's close and someone else might just be a-doubting ya. It tells the world "Screw you- I got that one right!" On a basket though, it either went in or it didn't go in. [/B][/QUOTE]

Last night I had a block/charge where, refereeing the defense, it was pretty clear that the defender stepped up after A1 was airborne. Clearly a block. If you were watching the defense.

But the defender made it look good to everyone watching the person with the ball (which was everyone else). Whistle/fist, bang my fists on my hips (another non-standard NFHS mechanic), and call out "BLOCK! Count it!"

THAT'S what selling a call is.