Had an interesting conversation with one of my cowokers the other day about when you call a foul and the basket goes in. From what we decided, there are two ways to do it. Either you sell the basket right away (which in turn makes it look like you are watching the basket rather than the play) or you wait for confrence with the other official and then signal the basket was made on your way to the table.... which one do you prefer and why?

I question why you need to sell it?

If you know it went in, and if you are positioned correctly most times you will see it peripherally, why wait for your partners?

Well, my opinion is that if you go with an immediate signal on the made basket it is selling the call. If you wait to get to the table, it't not selling the call.

I'm with BZ on this one -- why sell it? Either the basket went or it didn't. It's not like convincing a coach that her player did in fact whack the shooter in three different places. You signal the basket as good when you know that it went -- with the preliminary if you see it, or when you report to the table if you wait to be certain. Conferring with your partner is a way to add to your credibility "see, I always do whatever it takes to be sure I get the call right." What's wrong with that?

The officials manual tells you to count it when you know it goes in, it's not selling it, it is doing it correctly.

I agree. No need to sell it, if you know it went it, count it yourself. If you don't know or you're unsure, get help.

I agree also. As lead, if see it go in, I'll signal it immediately - if not I make eye contact with the trail to confirm if it was good or not. Irregardless, I always verbalize it when reporting to the table just to make sure we're all on the same page.

Good to see you tonight Juulie! Interesting pair of games, eh?

It gets counted by the calling official every time. It's a rare occasion where a partner needs to help on this. It's not selling -- if you're calling this selling a call, you don't understand what the phrase means.

No need to sell that it goes in, you may need to sell a prelim first (block) then just score it how you like. I score it with a fist, with my non foul calling arm.

On another note, there was one time where I had no clue if it went in because the play was carried far under the basket (I was lead) and I stayed with the play. I went to the table to report and they asked me if it counted, I had to double check with C/T and one of them confirmed it went in.

I now will let my partner verbally know that it went in if I don't see him give the score it signal.

I know a lot of veterans will realize this already. The non-calling official(s) should be aware of the calling official counting the basket or not when it goes in. If the calling official is giving the signal for two shots or no signal at all (it happens), the non-calling official(s) should get to them before they get to the table. The verbage should be something to let him/her know the ball went, but it shouldn't be "the basket was good."

Cough, cough. . . Irreg. . . choking. . . Irregar. . . gar. . . room spinning. . . can't breathe. . .

Count it as soon as you know it went in. That's usually as soon as it goes in.

It's not selling -- if you're calling this selling a call, you don't understand what the phrase means. [/B][/QUOTE]Exactly.

You sell a call when <b>you're</b> sure of the call but it's close and someone else might just be a-doubting ya. It tells the world "Screw you- I got that one right!" On a basket though, it either went in or it didn't go in.

Fwiw, Chuck, the word "irregardless" appears in the text of the NFHS rule book. It's verbalized in print several times.

Exactly.

You sell a call when <b>you're</b> sure of the call but it's close and someone else might just be a-doubting ya. It tells the world "Screw you- I got that one right!" On a basket though, it either went in or it didn't go in. [/B][/QUOTE]

Last night I had a block/charge where, refereeing the defense, it was pretty clear that the defender stepped up after A1 was airborne. Clearly a block. If you were watching the defense.

But the defender made it look good to everyone watching the person with the ball (which was everyone else). Whistle/fist, bang my fists on my hips (another non-standard NFHS mechanic), and call out "BLOCK! Count it!"

THAT'S what selling a call is.

The fact that lots of people make the same mistake doesn't change the fact that it's a mistake.

Thanks, Yogi. :)

From dictionary.com:
irregardless

adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

So, irregardless just ain't right.

Oh, yea, back to the topic. I always used to "sell" the made basket, you know, come out strong and really slam home that basket; it's one of those plays that the crowd loves, the "and-one". But as I've done more NCAA-W, I've come to appreciate their mentality and mechanic of just counting the basket. It either went in, or it didn't. That's helped me in my overall game as well - I try to not call every play as if it's life or death anymore. Yep, that's a travel. Yep, that's a foul. Yep, the basket went in. Also, if you are wide enough on the play, you should be able to see the ball go in along with keeping any eye on the players. If I'm at an angle where I need to stay with the play and players, I will keep my fist in the air and make eye contact with my partner(s) to ask for help on the basket. If they give me an affirmative, then I'll count it as soon as I know.

The one point that I see missing in this discussion: you do sell the call sometimes when you count the basket, you sell the fact that you are giving continuation, when play is close, you want everyone to know right away that you are sure he was in the act of shooting and you are counting the basket, it looks bad if you wait until you get to the table and then count the basket, like it was an afterthought and you are just guessing

From dictionary.com:
irregardless

adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

[/B][/QUOTE]Shut up.

If you are counting the basket because it was a shooting foul, you should signal the basket at the spot of the foul, then count it again when reporting at the table. If I don't know if the ball went in, I try to find out that information before I get to the table, so I can either count it or tell my partner(s) we've got two (or three) shots, before getting to the table. If it was a close play, and I know the foul occured before the shot, I will wave off the shot, verbalize "No shot, ball's OOB on the baseline" and point to the spot so my partners know what's going on. Iow, you should signal and make it clear what you have before you get to the table.

Shut up. [/B][/QUOTE]

:D

I was just trying to make two people's head explode with just one post; multi-tasking, so to speak.

In that case, why not just blow the whistle and say "Going up!" That lets everybody know that it's good if it goes. And you don't look over-excited when you "BANG!" it home.

:D

I was just trying to make two people's head explode with just one post; multi-tasking, so to speak. [/B][/QUOTE]Do it again and you'll be deboned.

Lotta people use "On the way".....somewhere....I think.....or maybe it's just me.

I know my wife wouldn't like that. :eek:

See how easily this thread becomes unraveled...

There is this one league, that many people claim they don't watch because its not basketball :D, where the officials point at the hoop to indicate the player was in the act.

irregardless :rolleyes:, communication is the key.

Speaking of unravelling your wife...during a recent game A1 drives to the basket & is just clobbered on a layup. I blow the whistle, ball spins off the backboard & starts spinning around the rim...round & round...it's coming off...wait, no it's back on...spin spin spin...this goes on for at least 5 or 6 seconds and I'm standing there with my arm in the air, everyone staring at the ball going round & round, finally the ball drops in. Huge cheer. Irregardless of the fact that I normally don't "sell" these I couldn't help myself, I banged it home.

When I first started in the late '80s, the (CCA, I think) mechanic was to not "sweep" it or count it at the point as the lead. The reason was that the trail may have basket interference or goaltending. So, when you were going to report the foul, the trial would move to your position and say, "the basket went in." That then would give you, the lead, the option of counting it at that point if you had it as a shooting foul.

About 2 or 3 years later, they changed it. I'm not sure whether the change was due to the infrequency of BI/GT calls or they wanted the trail to keep focused on the players -- or both. I don't know whether selling the call was part of the change. Sounds reasonable, but in any event, you, as the trail, need to be prepared to tell your partner that the basket went in in case he didn't see it.

:eek:

It just keeps gettin' worser...

No it doesn't
 

Chuck, Don't let JR pull a fast one on you. I just ran a search on the new electronic rules and case books. That word does not appear.
Irregularity appears in 2-11-11 Note 2 and irrelevant shows up in 9.10.1SitC.

Now JR will tell me to shut up. :D


A classic! :)

I apologize for acting irresponsibly.

Re: No it doesn't
 

I don't get the reaction to the statement by JR. "Verbalize" means to put into words. It doesn't mean "spoken" (the synonym for this would be some form of "oral").

And, since the word (as opposed to a picture, or code, or semaphore flags, or other representation, is used), I think JR's statement was correct.