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-   -   Foul? Travel? Held ball? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/23920-foul-travel-held-ball.html)

ChuckElias Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:44am

This happened to me last night. HS game. I had no idea what to do, so I did nothing. Tell me if there should've been a whistle.

Ball is loose on the floor in the backcourt. About 3 people around it, maybe 4. Anyway, A1 goes to the floor on his stomach and reaches out to secure the ball. In the process of wrapping up the ball, A1 also wraps his arms around B1's leg. A1 is holding the ball so tightly that B1 can't get his leg out. B1 pulls his legs and drags A1 and the ball along the floor. A1 then pushes the ball to A2 and play continues upcourt. This whole thing was about a second and a half, btw. It wasn't a "tug of war" with the kid and the leg. But there was clearly a point at which B1 tried to get free and couldn't.

Coach B yells travel (b/c A1 "slid"), but I'm not going there. Could this be a holding foul on A1? A1 was clearly playing the ball and not intentionally holding B1. A1 simply wanted to keep control of the ball with other defenders around. So I didn't think a foul was right. It's obviously not a held ball, although the idea is kind of funny to me.

Any thoughts? Should I have had a whistle? If so, for what? Thanks.

RookieDude Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
This happened to me last night. HS game. I had no idea what to do, so I did nothing. Tell me if there should've been a whistle.

Ball is loose on the floor in the backcourt. About 3 people around it, maybe 4. Anyway, A1 goes to the floor on his stomach and reaches out to secure the ball. In the process of wrapping up the ball, A1 also wraps his arms around B1's leg. A1 is holding the ball so tightly that B1 can't get his leg out. B1 pulls his legs and drags A1 and the ball along the floor. A1 then pushes the ball to A2 and play continues upcourt. This whole thing was about a second and a half, btw. It wasn't a "tug of war" with the kid and the leg. But there was clearly a point at which B1 tried to get free and couldn't.

Coach B yells travel (b/c A1 "slid"), but I'm not going there. Could this be a holding foul on A1? A1 was clearly playing the ball and not intentionally holding B1. A1 simply wanted to keep control of the ball with other defenders around. So I didn't think a foul was right. It's obviously not a held ball, although the idea is kind of funny to me.

Any thoughts? Should I have had a whistle? If so, for what? Thanks.

A second and a half?
Did A1 get a big disadvantage on the brief "hold"?
Was A1 even really trying to hold B1?
I got nuthin'.

Now if A1 was "holding" B1's leg without the ball...and B1 was trying to get to the ball...then sure, you have a hold.
But, with the scenario you described Chuck, I just see incidental contact.

lukealex Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:08am

I would say good no call, any longer of a time I might have a foul on A1 for holding the leg.

rainmaker Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:31am

I suppose you might have a foul, but otherwise, I agree with the no-call. Where in the world would you get a held ball??? (I borrowed the extra question marks from fonnzzy, who is going back on the wagon.)

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:34am

Technical foul on A1 for messing with your mind, Chuck.

Or no-call. Let 'em sort out the loose ball. Nobody got any kinda illegal advantage anywhere on this one, as far as I can see.

Huntin' Ref Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:56am

No call was correct. Obviously, we officials understand that travelling wasn't an option. I have seen this type of play a few times and the coaches (usually) understand that just because a play/situation looks weird, it doesn't always warrant a whistle.

Play on!

Camron Rust Wed Dec 28, 2005 01:44pm

Agree...ugly but nothing illegal as far as I could see.

Mark Dexter Wed Dec 28, 2005 02:55pm

Any chance of a kick ball violation? :p

That said, I might call a hold on A1 (actually did on a somewhat similar play last night - coach thought I was insane) but would pass if, as you said, it was incidental to playing the ball and wasn't excessive.

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 28, 2005 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

- coach thought I was insane

Coach was right.

Got nuthin' to do with your officiating though, if that'll make you feel better.

Forksref Wed Dec 28, 2005 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Any chance of a kick ball violation? :p

That said, I might call a hold on A1 (actually did on a somewhat similar play last night - coach thought I was insane) but would pass if, as you said, it was incidental to playing the ball and wasn't excessive.

Never reffed kick ball so I don't know those rules.

assignmentmaker Wed Dec 28, 2005 08:05pm

This is
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
This happened to me last night. HS game. I had no idea what to do, so I did nothing. Tell me if there should've been a whistle.

Ball is loose on the floor in the backcourt. About 3 people around it, maybe 4. Anyway, A1 goes to the floor on his stomach and reaches out to secure the ball. In the process of wrapping up the ball, A1 also wraps his arms around B1's leg. A1 is holding the ball so tightly that B1 can't get his leg out. B1 pulls his legs and drags A1 and the ball along the floor. A1 then pushes the ball to A2 and play continues upcourt. This whole thing was about a second and a half, btw. It wasn't a "tug of war" with the kid and the leg. But there was clearly a point at which B1 tried to get free and couldn't.

Coach B yells travel (b/c A1 "slid"), but I'm not going there. Could this be a holding foul on A1? A1 was clearly playing the ball and not intentionally holding B1. A1 simply wanted to keep control of the ball with other defenders around. So I didn't think a foul was right. It's obviously not a held ball, although the idea is kind of funny to me.

Any thoughts? Should I have had a whistle? If so, for what? Thanks.

Fan-tastik!

You should send this to the 'Journal of Bizarre Incidental Contact'. Oh? This IS the 'Journal of Bizarre Incidental Contact'.

I agree with how you saw it. I see the 'dragging A1' as an emphatic way of saying 'leggo my leg'.



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