LONG FOUL CALL

[BIG O]

Varsity game, my partner is a varsity rookie, 5th game. A1 makes a steal & has the entire court to go in for a layup. I'm the T & along ways from the basket (aleast 3/4 of the court). As A1 went in for a strong layup, B1 & B2 came in fast from the side of A1. A1 hangs onto his shot, while being twisted in the air from little contact from B1 or B2. A1 lands on both feet with the ball in his hands, while B1 & B2 go flying across the floor on backs or bellies. My partner the L, blows the whistle, followed by "TRAVELING"... The gym is like a blender.

Now in the past, I've told many partners, many times before to never make a long distance call while I'm right on top of the play. Should I eat my own words and have made the 70' foul call on this rookie? Should I stop telling my partners this?

By the way, I didn't get involved in the layup. But then made things worse by called a foul right away on the other end on that same A1 layup player....... That also turned on the blender again.


BIG "O"

[WhistlesAndStripes]

If it was just a "little" contact, and he didn't judge it to be a foul, it sounds like he had a better angle on it then you did. If he missed a big white elephant, then go get it. Otherwise, leave it be.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BIG O
Varsity game, my partner is a varsity rookie, 5th game. A1 makes a steal & has the entire court to go in for a layup. I'm the T & along ways from the basket (aleast 3/4 of the court). As A1 went in for a strong layup, B1 & B2 came in fast from the side of A1. A1 hangs onto his shot, while being twisted in the air from little contact from B1 or B2. A1 lands on both feet with the ball in his hands, while B1 & B2 go flying across the floor on backs or bellies. My partner the L, blows the whistle, followed by "TRAVELING"... The gym is like a blender.

Now in the past, I've told many partners, many times before to never make a long distance call while I'm right on top of the play. Should I eat my own words and have made the 70' foul call on this rookie? Should I stop telling my partners this?

By the way, I didn't get involved in the layup. But then made things worse by called a foul right away on the other end on that same A1 layup player....... That also turned on the blender again.


BIG "O"

Let it go, "O". If you step in there, you'll destroy whatever credibility the rook has. Every call that he makes after that is gonna be viewed as wrong by the coaches and fans. Talk to him after, if you think it will help him. If you step in long-distance, you're hurting him. It's all part of a rookie's learning process. We all were there once too.

[mick]

Originally posted by BIG O
Varsity game, my partner is a varsity rookie, 5th game. A1 makes a steal & has the entire court to go in for a layup. I'm the T & along ways from the basket (aleast 3/4 of the court). As A1 went in for a strong layup, B1 & B2 came in fast from the side of A1. A1 hangs onto his shot, while being twisted in the air from little contact from B1 or B2. A1 lands on both feet with the ball in his hands, while B1 & B2 go flying across the floor on backs or bellies. My partner the L, blows the whistle, followed by "TRAVELING"... The gym is like a blender.

If that's me and I wanna get that foul, then I am calling the foul and running to close down with my fist in the air, over-selling it and ending up 20' from the call.

More often then not, a partner will say, "Thanks for gittin' that."
Mileage may vary.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Let it go, "O". If you step in there, you'll destroy whatever credibility the rook has. Every call that he makes after that is gonna be viewed as wrong by the coaches and fans. Talk to him after, if you think it will help him. If you step in long-distance, you're hurting him. It's all part of a rookie's learning process. We all were there once too.

Rook didn't see it, JR.
Bad angle.
Too close.
I'll help.
mick

[refnrev]

Don't eat them unless you have a play that has a serious impact upon the game. If this is late in the 4th in a 1 point game, do it. But by all means be sprinting to the spot as you whistle! Explain it to your partner later. I'd thank mine, especially if my view was blocked and he got it right. I take it from your description that this was a 2 whistle crew not a 3.

[blindzebra]

My question is why if A1 has the entire court to go after the steal, why is the varsity vet still 70' away?

A1 must really have some wheels to go 70+ feet to your 15.

[M&M Guy]

This is a tough balancing act, between going out of your area to make a call, to get a call right, to letting your partner "live or die" with their call. I've always heard the saying, "only call out of your area if everyone in the gym saw it except your partner". Easy in theory, but it's hard in practice.

From your description, there was a "little contact from B1 or B2". So who would you call the foul on, B1 or B2? Do you know for sure there was contact? Do you think maybe the shooter saw both players coming hard, braced for heavy contact (held on to the shot), then came down with little or no contact after all?

By all means, come in with a call, even cross-country, if it's real obvious. But in this case, it sounds like you weren't real sure, so perhaps the right thing to do was let it go.

[mick]

Originally posted by blindzebra
My question is why if A1 has the entire court to go after the steal, why is the varsity vet still 70' away?

A1 must really have some wheels to go 70+ feet to your 15.

Quick steal near division line.

[M&M Guy]

Let me throw out a similar situation, except I was on the "other end", so to speak. I was trail, 2-person BV game. Players from team A passing the ball above the key, pass gets tipped, I have to duck out of the way of first the ball, then A1 going after the loose ball. I get turned around to make sure A1 saves it before going in the backcourt, then spin around just in time to see A2 catch it, jumping from the backcourt, but one foot already in the frontcourt. From my angle, looked like a good save. My partner comes out from the baseline and calls the over-and-back violation. The crowd went semi-nuts, and of course team A's coach wants to know 1)why was that a violation, and 2)why was he calling it from way over there? We talked about it after the game, and his explanation was he saw me get turned around, and he was "pretty sure" A2 caught it in the air before coming down, so he thought he should come out with the call. Judging from the crowd reaction (ok, not always a good indicator, but sometimes you can tell), it might've been a wrong call. Or, at least, not an obviously wrong call. But it sure ended up looking bad for both of us. I told him in that case, if he would've let it go and I missed the call, I would rather take the little bit of heat for missing that call, than the mess that erupted with him coming out that far on a close call.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by mick

Quick steal near division line.

Hmmm, sounds like my speed.

The 15' part.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

Rook didn't see it, JR.
Bad angle.
Too close.
I'll help.
mick

On that particular type of play, I won't help, Mick. The shooter landed on his feet. If the defenders hadda put the shooter into the third row or onto his butt- hard, then maybe I might think about it. But not on a (also maybe) touch-foul from 70' feet away though. Jmo, but if you do that you're telling the world that the rook don't know what he's doing.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

On that particular type of play, I won't help, Mick. The shooter landed on his feet. If the defenders hadda put the shooter into the third row or onto his butt- hard, then maybe I might think about it. But not on a (also maybe) touch-foul from 70' feet away though. Jmo, but if you do that you're telling the world that the rook don't know what he's doing.

I agree with you.

And I'll tell you what else I wouldn't have done: I would not have called a foul on A1 at the other end after this mess. Then I would be telling the world I don't know what I'm doing.

[icallfouls]

Assignors don't get calls from coaches/AD's/whomever for getting plays right.

Now with that said, the rook's cred is gone, confidence is going in the tank, and is likely to be distracted for some time if you make that call.

At some point we all have to swim in our own crap, but hopefully we learn from it. Let him live and die with it.

[Edited by icallfouls on Dec 14th, 2005 at 07:02 PM]

[Forksref]

Just think, one good thing could come out of making the call. At least you were close to the table to report it!