After team A's made basket, everyone with the exception of B1 heads down court. B1 picks up the loose ball out of bounds on the endline and is facing the court, I'm standing OOB about 10 feet from him. I start my 5 second count. At 2 -onethousand B1 realizes there is noone to inbound to, B1 tosses the ball to me, which hits me in the chin (of course) and dislodges the whistle from my mouth. The ball caroms of me, back to B1 all the while still OOB. I'm still counting and am at 5 seconds. By the time I get the whistle back to my mouth the ball is inbounded and is 2 or 3 dribble down court. This is an 8th grdae summer league game so I bite the whistle. My question is, if this is a Varsity HS game do I blow the late whistle for the violation, or laugh it off like everyone else in the gym? (most embarassing)
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wow. interesting situation. with the ability to think on his/her feet like that, the kid is going places.
to answer your question, how about looking at NFHS 9-2-10: No player shall: Be out of bounds when he/she touches or is touched by the ball after it has been released on a throw-in pass. arguably, the thrower had "released the ball," and he/she was clearly "out of bounds when he/she touch(ed) the ball." so you could have a violation independent of the potential 5 second count. any other thoughts out there? what a weird play. jake |
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passes! :) BTW, in a game last season a *HARD* no look pass from the free throw line was deflected at the last second, just missing my head. I didn't see it until it went whizzing by me, I was told later by my partner he was certain my nose was about to be broken until the ball was tipped. Anyway, I think I would have called the violation in your case, even if it was just an 8th grade summer game. |
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If it was clearly a 5 count before ball got inbounded, that was a violation and should have been blown. Kids can't bail themselves out on a five count by tossing to ref to get a do-over, especially 8th grade. Your call to make or not, but I think summer league is a good place for players to make those mistakes and learn that they are wrong, so these same players don't do it next year in a high school game that counts. [Edited by Hawks Coach on May 16th, 2001 at 03:41 PM] |
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7-6-1 The throw-in starts when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. The thrower shall release the ball on a pass directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7, within five seconds after the throw-in starts. 7-5-7 After a goal or awarded goal as in 7-4-3, the team not credited with the score shall make the throw-in from the end of the court where the goal was made and from any point outside the end line. Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the end line to a <b>teammate(s)</b>. outside the boundary line. 9-2-2 Fail to pass the ball directly into the court <b>so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.</b> |
I always thought ref was considered part of floor. If so, can B1 attempt to throw to B2 (OOB) and hit ref, then pick ball up and reattempt to get to B2 (if enough time is left) or throw ball in (assuming ball remained OOB)?
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As long as 7-5-7 allows for a bounce pass, then I agree with Hawks Coach - the ball is still live. However, I try to always anticipate enough to dodge the ball. (I played that a lot, er, quite a few years ago and got reasonably good.)
I'd call the 5-second violation, even late. Had a similar sitch where I tossed for the start of game. The ball was recovered by a player in her front court, who immediately passed it to their guard standing in the back court. I think I yelled "stop, wait" while trying to get my whistle in my mouth as the guard drove into the front court. Turns out my partner saw me and hit his whistle even though he had no idea why I wanted the game stopped. I made the call and we went on.... |
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It's no different than a BC pass by A1 hitting an official in the FC, bouncing back into the BC and being retrieved by A1. It's a BC violation, even though the pass was meant for A2. Richard, if you agree with the coach, you'll probably have a good game if you get the opportunity to work for him! :) [Edited by BktBallRef on May 16th, 2001 at 11:50 PM] |
Ahh.... summer leagues.
If it can happen it will! Hit the whistle late, no reason to award him for stretching the rules like silly putty. |
I definitely disagree with the idea that tossing the ball to the ref is an automatic violation. This happens quite often at that age level, I have found. When they have the ball out of bounds after a made basket, they can dance the jig for five seconds, I could care less what they do as long as the ball is still out of bounds. I usually just swat the ball back toward them without catching it or if it is close to them and they have just dropped it towards me, I will just let it go and give them a raised eyebrow look that lets them know it is theirs to get. I have not had one single murmur out of a coach or fan about handling this common situation like this.
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I'm not going to debate whether you should be strict on your calls at this level or give a kid a do-over, because I am on record for making the call, then explaining it. My reasons for this have been stated many times. I do disagree with those that feel the ball hitting the ref caused a violation. I do not think stating that the ref is part of the floor for these purposes in incorrect. Here's why:
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To me, the player hitting the OOB ref with the ball is no different that if he bounced it OOB before the inbound pass. BTW - I know I've told this before, but it seems appropriate here. When my son, Josh, was a junior, his team was ahead by just a few points late in the game. The other team had just scored to close within 4. My son, who is also a referee (this is important), went to inbound the ball. All his teammates went downcourt, just like in the case above. Josh knew his team was out of timeouts. The official had started his 5 count. Josh then turned to him and said, "There's something on the ball." The official blew his whistle and held up his hand for an official's timeout. He then put his hands out to receive the ball. Josh, however, wiped the ball on his shorts and said, "There, I think I got it all." He then bounced the ball to the official. Meanwhile, his coach was able to yell at his teammates and get them back into the backcourt. After the game, I asked Josh if, as a referee, he would ever fall for a trick like that. He replied, "Not now." |
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Now, I'm not necessarily advocating calling it, and it may violate what probably should happen but by the rules quoted, it's a violation. |
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Throwing the ball off an official isn't any different than passing it off the wall behind the player. Can the thrower pass the ball to himself by throwing it off the back of the backboard, then passing it inbounds? If he can't, how is that any different than passing it off an official? So many on this forum just give us their opinion or tell us what they do without ever cracking a rule book. If you're going to convince me that a play should be called a certain rule, cite a rule and explain your interpretation. You may or may not convince me but at least we're looking at some documentation. Not just guesses and opinions. |
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So, if it a spot throwin and the ball is thrown off an OOB official it is essentially a dribble. If the play can reach the ball without leaving the spot, it is all legal. If it is a throwin after a basket, the player may run to get it or a teammate may step OOB to get it. It is essentially dribble or a bounce pass, both of which are allowed on such a throw-in. |
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Camron - where the heck have you been? I knew you would find the rule reference to back up my contention, just like you always do. However, I think you mean 4-4-4, not 4-4-2. Also, it's nice to know that I am not a wall, although some coaches have told me my head is made of brick. :) [Edited by Mark Padgett on May 18th, 2001 at 01:17 AM] |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
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bad idea to get an official interp on these fuzzy plays. But IMO the rules seem to be pretty clear. The player is allowed to bounce the ball, or pass the ball OOB after a made basket. If he passes the ball OOB I don't believe he is restricted from catching his own pass OOB (travel & dribble rules don't apply). If we agree on this then I think it follows that the ball can bounce off the OOB official & be retrieved. If the ball deflects off the OOB official & goes inbounds it's a throw-in violation when touched by a team mate. If the official was standing in bounds & the ball deflects back OOB we have an OOB violation. If the official was leaning against the wall or sitting up in the basket supports then we have a violation. But in this case we have nothing. |
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Obviously. Where's the spot? Great question. Obviuosly it's at the original throw in spot, since it went OOB without touching a player. Quote:
Sure, this is NCAA or NF rules modified for AAU. These modifications state a ref can lean against the wall during throw-ins any time after the 3rd consecutive game. Further, if at least 2 of these games were 13U or younger the ref can observe throw-ins while sitting in the backboard supports (it's a safety and/or sanity issue). :) |
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