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-   -   If Given The Opportunity What Federation Rule Changes Would You Make For 2001-2002 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/2339-if-given-opportunity-what-federation-rule-changes-would-you-make-2001-2002-a.html)

Love2ref4Ever Sat May 12, 2001 04:49pm

As Basketball Officials We Allways Have To Prepare At The Begining Of The Season For New Rule Changes. If Given The Opportunity What New Federation Rules Would You Like To See Added To The Current Rules.

rainmaker Sat May 12, 2001 08:14pm

...make any shot from behind the division line 5 points!

Mark Dexter Sat May 12, 2001 08:47pm

I'd get rid of the lag time rule. If everyone in the gym (officials and timer included) knows that the whistle blew at 5 seconds, the clock should be set to five seconds, not four.

BktBallRef Sat May 12, 2001 11:18pm

TOP 5!
 
1- Coaches are not allowed to request time-out. A player on the floor must do it.

2- Any foul by an offensive player would result in a turnover but never FTs.

3- Three seconds would only be a violation if the offensive player was in the lane for three seconds, and received a pass or rebounded a missed shot.

4- All sideline throw-in spots would be from the division line or the FT line extended, whichever was closer. Baseline throw-ins would be from just outside the FT lane on the appropriate side of the lane.

5- Technical fouls on the offense would not result in losing the ball for the offensive team.

rainmaker Sun May 13, 2001 12:22am

Re: TOP 5!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
2- Any foul by an offensive player would result in a turnover but never FTs.
Tony- I understand all but this one. I'm sure you've got a good reason, though; flesh it out a little for me...

juulie

BktBallRef Sun May 13, 2001 12:32am

If you think about it, a player control foul only results in the offensive team losing the ball. But an illegal screen or a push by a player trying to get open could result in a 1&1 or a 2 shot bonus. Why is there a difference?

Or how about a play where the dribbler loses control of the ball and runs over the defender. You have to decide if there was player control of the ball when the foul occurred. With my rule change, the penalty would be the same either way.

Does that help?

Mark Padgett Sun May 13, 2001 01:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
If you think about it, a player control foul only results in the offensive team losing the ball. But an illegal screen or a push by a player trying to get open could result in a 1&1 or a 2 shot bonus. Why is there a difference?

Or how about a play where the dribbler loses control of the ball and runs over the defender. You have to decide if there was player control of the ball when the foul occurred. With my rule change, the penalty would be the same either way.

Does that help?

I think a better solution would be to not exclude player control fouls from free throws. Think about this - why is a pushoff less of a foul if made by a player with the ball as if made by a defensive player who doesn't have the ball? The advantage gained by the contact should determine if there is a foul that deserves free throws, not whether a player who fouls was dribbling or not. If you want the penalty to be the same either way, you either have to have no exclusions or all exclusions. I vote for no exclusions.

BTW - I have been lobbying for years to eliminate the possession part of the technical foul penalty because it penalizes an offensive team more than a defensive team for the same infraction. Apparently different levels agree with me. Perhaps, eventually the NF will too.

Also BTW - the NBA does use specific spots for throwins that result from virtually all violations. They only use the spot closest to the ball when the violation is that the ball went OOB. I don't really see any significance one way or the other. FYI - the NBA used to have a rule that if the ball went OOB, the defensive player nearest the ball when it went OOB had to be the new inbounder! This was a real time-saver, but they dropped it years ago.

One other rule change I would like to see is to go to the NBA rule on jump balls. Whatever team gets the opening jump gets the ball to start the 4th quarter with the other team getting it to start the 2nd and 3rd. All other held balls have a real jump. Let's bring the jump ball back to the game and drop the AP arrow in the ocean where it belongs.

BktBallRef Sun May 13, 2001 09:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I think a better solution would be to not exclude player control fouls from free throws. Think about this - why is a pushoff less of a foul if made by a player with the ball as if made by a defensive player who doesn't have the ball?


It's no different than the reasons that losing possession needs to be taken out of technical foul situations. In this sitch, the penalty is losing the ball. If you give FTs to a defender that took a charge, you've penalized the offense twice. You've taken the ball from them AND you've given the defender FTs. If you call a foul on the defense, there's just one penalty. I think that's the rationale behind the NBA rule and I would have to agree with it.

Quote:

One other rule change I would like to see is to go to the NBA rule on jump balls. Whatever team gets the opening jump gets the ball to start the 4th quarter with the other team getting it to start the 2nd and 3rd. All other held balls have a real jump. Let's bring the jump ball back to the game and drop the AP arrow in the ocean where it belongs.
Okay. I'll go along with that but for boys only. I've seen a lot of lower level girls' ball where there could be 20 held balls in a game. Imagine having a jump ball for each held ball in a 8th grade girls game! :)

Mark Dexter Sun May 13, 2001 08:08pm

AP in girls' game
 
You think 8th grade is bad? I once kept book for a varsity girls league tournament game - and ran out of space to record the poss. arrow. At the end of the game, there were twenty jump balls called (doesn't include beginning of quarter) - all but one being actual tie-ups.

Alligator Bag Sun May 13, 2001 10:48pm

I would love to see only 5 players allowed on the lane during a free throw and to let the players enter lane on release. I think this would clean up the play in the lane during free throws better than 6 players and entering when ball hits rim.

BktBallRef Mon May 14, 2001 10:10am

The issue with players entring the lane on the release is that, on average, 50% to 60% of the time, the shot goes in. So there's all this jockeying for position that occurrs prior the ball hitting the rim that's totally unnecessary. That's why the rule was changed about 4 years ago.

Brian Watson Mon May 14, 2001 10:36am

I would like to see a note added to the fouls section alerting people to the fact that over-the-back and reaching in are in fact not fouls.

And maybe a 10 run, err 20 point slaughter rule.

rainmaker Mon May 14, 2001 10:51am

I like the 20 point slaughter rule...

... and the note in the book that over the back, and reaching in are not fouls. Put it on the cover!!

bob jenkins Mon May 14, 2001 11:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I like the 20 point slaughter rule...

... and the note in the book that over the back, and reaching in are not fouls. Put it on the cover!!

There was an "experimental" rule a few years ago that the clock would continue to run when a team was up by a certain number of points in the 4th quarter. (If memory serves, Colorado was (on of) the "guinea pig" states for this.)

Apparently, it wasn't well enough received to make it to the rules book.

rockyroad Mon May 14, 2001 11:47am

I like the NCAA rule on T's (point of interruption); I would like to see no shots on any "offensive" foul (when team or player control exists)...I have thought many times about a 35 second shot clock - in WA we have a 30 second clock for girl's games - but am not completely sold on the idea...on intentional fouls in the last minute or so of the game - you know, when the team behind purposely fouls to stop the clock - let the coach choose who gets to shoot the free throws and just have it be two shots with players on the lane...

Richard Ogg Mon May 14, 2001 03:13pm

Intentional Fouls in Last Minute
 
On those intentional fouls in the last minute or so of the game.... How about on any non-shooting foul in the last minute there is 1 shot and the offense gets the ball back. (True intentionals would still be 2 shots + ball.)

With all the good ideas here, what would it take to get the rules committee to read this????

Mark Padgett Tue May 15, 2001 01:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
and the note in the book that over the back, and reaching in are not fouls. Put it on the cover!!
Why put this in the rule book? Referees already know this - and since it is in the contracts of all coaches that they specifically do not come within 100 feet of a rule book, it would not make any difference.

Love2ref4Ever Tue May 15, 2001 02:17pm

Reply
 
How about speeding up the game by in the bonus situation
on the 7th team foul no 1 and 1,We only would be in the bonus situation on the 10th team foul and we would shoot only 2 shots.There would be less stoppage of play for shhoting free throws.

BktBallRef Tue May 15, 2001 03:41pm

Why does the game need to be speeded up?

Love2ref4Ever Tue May 15, 2001 03:48pm

Reply
 
Let me re-phrase that not to speed up the game, but to keep the game moving!

Love2ref4Ever Tue May 15, 2001 04:02pm

Reply
 
How about in a situation where A1 commits his 5th personel foul(federation rules)and B2 is awarded two free throws.While we are waiting for A1's coach to make a substitution(in most cases they use this time as a time out)for A1,We could shoot the first free throw instead of standing around waiting while the coaches use up the 30 seconds to make a substitution.This would help to keep the game moving.

JRutledge Tue May 15, 2001 04:44pm

The game is fine.
 
We need to just call the game by the rules, use common sense when needed and have fun. The game is fine the way it is, let us just leave it alone.

I am not saying I am objecting to the current rules changes, but constantly changing rules that have nothing to do with the game or affect the outcome. I really do not know too many officials that would give only 2 points if a player tossed the ball up behind the 3 point line. And unless you had kids playing constantly above the rim, which is not always as common at the HS level, you would rarely ever see this play.

The game is fine, let us just play.

Peace

rpwall Wed May 16, 2001 08:26am

My two cents worth ..
 
My suggested rule changes have to do with things we now have to worry about that have little to do with the game on the court:

1. All timeouts should be 45 seconds in length. I also agree with the earlier comment that coaches should not be allowed to call timeouts. Having to check with coaches on whether they want a full or a thirty, and discussing if they can sit down would be avoided.

2. Do away with the coaching box. It is what they say and do not where they say and do it that we should be worried about. Maybe the NCAA version of endline to 28 ft. line would be OK.

3. Play two 16 minute halves instead of four 8 minute quarters. The thought here is attain two fewer game interruptions, two fewer opportunities for the "auto horn" to be off, two fewer slowdowns holding the ball for a last second shot, two fewer worthless heave-hos from 70 feet, and two fewer "did the shot beat the buzzer" opportunities.

4. Eliminate the jump ball to start the game. Go with a coin toss instead. Too many things can go wrong on the opening tip and it sets a bad tone for the game. Use AP to start overtime. This change would save coaching/practice time/effort as well.

That's all I can dream up for now.


Richard Ogg Wed May 16, 2001 06:33pm

Re: My two cents worth ..
 
Quote:

Originally posted by rpwall

4. Eliminate the jump ball to start the game. Go with a coin toss instead....


Just give it to the visiting team and away we go! (No "Hea-tails" to work through.)

Kelvin green Fri May 18, 2001 10:22am

I disagree. There just wouldnt be something right aabout an opening throw-in. And knowing how things go in a HS game it would get messed up worse than the opening tip does now.


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