I am trying to find when the game horn should be used (if used)in these situations:

Used to help a coach get a time out when his team has poss?
Used during a dead ball to signal subs to enter?
Used to signal to ref when a player has committed teams seventh or tenth foul?
Used to signal to ref a player has committed 5th foul?


Thanks

- Never.

- Used to signal officals that subs are *present* during a dead ball. Officials decide if subs can enter, table does not have that authority.

- Only if the officials are not aware and the table cannot otherwise get their attention.

- Same as 3.

Then why does R2-11-10 say the scorer is supposed to <b>signal</b> in that case then? And R2-11-3 sez the scorer <b>signals</b> the officials by using the game horn?

Huh, huh, huh...?

Or should I just go ahead and tell myself to "shut up" and save you the bother?

No, don't shut up, you amuse me.

I happen to tell the scorer simply raise the index finger of both hands when we're at 7 and give me the peace sign when we're at 10. Save the horn to signal only when we insist on getting it wrong.

When they object and remind me of R2-11-3 I tell them to shut up. And to keep their damn finger off that horn.

So.......lemme amuse you some more.

Would you recommend the same procedure be used by...say...new officials like in the other thread?

Like in what other thread?

Like in the "Advice for Rookie Officials" thread...

Oh, you mean the "yet another Rut/BZ p1ssing contest thread".

I would advise new guys to interact well with the table but keep in mind they should be considered your employees. So, once you figure out what you want the table to be doing for you don't be afraid to tell them. And if that means violating RS2-79-38g-11sub a, e & m along with the associated 12 case book plays detailing the interpretation of this complex code then by golly, consider yourself empowered to violate it & let the chips fall where they may dad-gummit!

Of course, the new guys will be working with new table people more than likely, so it's kinda like the blind leading the blind.

Which is why you hear so many damn horns at these games IMO.

So.......

If I understand you right.....and I'm not sure whether I do or not....then I disagree. I think. Maybe.

What you're suggesting is fine for <b>you</b>. You're used to tracking fouls, team fouls ,TO's, subs,etc., --iow staying aware of the game situation. You don't even think about it; it's second nature to you. However new officials are often still trying to figure out which end of the whistle goes in their mouth. They need as much help as possible from the bench to kinda guide them along a little. Got nothing really to do with the presence or lack of rules acumen; more like common sense. Give 'em all the help you can while they're growing up.

No, we're saying the same thing.

I'm just extending it to their table, who probably doesn't know which end of the pencil to use when writing in the player's names.

The new guys can instruct the new table people, but within 5 minutes it's all going to be forgotten, most likely.

But you do have a good point, even the rookies can use the table people to help them.

As for my keeping track of fouls & the like...Friday night near the end of a close game I called a foul on B1, as I go tableside I see coach B is gathering his players around, which distracted me. I report the foul & take a step towards coach B's huddle to ask what's up and he says "THAT was B1's 5th!" and looks at me like I'm dirt. I sheepishly look back at the table and the score keeper is holding up 5 fingers.

Damn. It's still early, I'll get better.

Both of you, shut up!

It's the first thing I teach at my camps. "Whistle Anatomy".

I just want to make sure, the horn is never used to get the officials attention for a time out.

Thanks

They're busy elsewhere, so I guess I'll jump in.

No, the table should never use the horn to get your attention for a timeout request. The request can only be made by a player or the head coach.