I noticed a number of my more experienced partners use the vocal signal "On the floor" when calling certain fouls. It is usually around the basket, or in the lane, and mostly in the front court. It seems that this happens on a non shooting play where the offensive player in control is fouled by a defensive player before the shot.

The sequence goes like this:

1. Whistle
2. Fist goes up
3. Vocal signal...."On the floor"
4. Sometimes, not always a pointing gesture to the spot on the court where the foul occured.
5. Report to the table

Is this similar to saying "Before the shot"?

Is this a widely accepted mechanic?

Are there rules or cases to support this?

I'm curious as to the intent or meaning or the origin of this statement relating to calling thes types of plays.

It's simply a term some officials use to indicate that the foul was before the shot.

I am a little confused. What exactly are you asking? Are you asking just about the words "on the floor?" Or are you asking about the entire sequence of actions you described?

Depending on where you live or who you work for the term "on the floor" might not be acceptable. Now it does not matter to me what you say as long as you get the call right. I think most of the time officials do not properly award FTs for fouls when players are clearly shooting the ball (just because they shooter did not leave the floor when fouled).

I think instead of saying "on the floor" officials should just say "no shot" and wave off the basket as listed in the back of the rulebook.

Peace

Do the same people say "stay here" or "going the other way" on out-of-bounds calls? :D

The term “on the floor “ is clearly a one official communicating to his partner and everyone else that this is a non shooting foul. It is pretty common. You will also have some officials that will say “no shot”. There are some officials that are less vocal and won’t here much of anything.
But the most important thing is communication. Your partner, the players & coaches all know what is going on.

I usaually will stay stay here if the ball is knock out by the other team. I never say going the other way, just point.

We should all be saying, "No shot."

Communicates the same info and is mechanically correct.

It's also shorter than, "On the floor."

But not as short as, "Before.":D

Why say "Stay here" instead of just calling color and pointing direction (approved NFHS/NCAA mechanics)? "Stay here" sounds like you're training a dog or something.

It depends. Its kind of a bad habit saying stay here, I am tryin to get out of the habit of doing that.

Agreed. Saying "on the floor" instead of "no shot" around here gets you quick deductions on an evaluation sheet.

I agree with Rut, and I really think it's nitpicky to deduct on an evaluation for simply saying, "on the floor" or even "stays here." I've sat courtside in D1 games and heard those exact same terms from NCAA tourney officials. Both terms, especially "on the floor" are communicative and as long as the communication is clear I personally don't see a problem as they can facilitate better dead ball administration than doing nothing. To ding an official on an evaluation for something so, IMO, minor, is myopic because you're losing sight of the whole official (calls, judgement, mechanics, positioning, game management) in the specifics of minor terminology. Granted there are better ways of communicating, and we should all strive for that, but this is really pretty ticky tack, again IMHO.

They are already D1 officials and everyone knows they can call, mechanics aren't looked at as much as someone trying to move up to that level!! why say more than you should...whistle,color, point!! perfect mechanic, will be liked a lot better!!! Some people think the "EXTRA" stuff is just said to try and make yourself stick out or draw more attention to yourself, even if you don't mean it that way, things can be perceived that way sometimes to assignors!!!

I have a very simple solution to cure officials from saying "on the floor." And it involves electrical shocks to certain parts of that anatomy.

MTD, Sr.

We're not supposed to say either "On the floor" or "No shot". Just fist, "white, 35", prelim, indicate spot for throw-in or indicate shots. I will say "No shot" if the shot is away before I get the fist in the air.

While I understand why you say "stay here" is something minor, I think it's interesting that you mention positioning as something that is important. A small or "minor" step left or right makes all the difference in the world to get a good look. Plus, we can't do the same things now that a current D1 official did before they moved up. Times change, mechanics change and we must change with them. I can't understand someone saying something is minor when you consider all the competition to move up.

Most of the time, there is a reason to do something and a reason not to do something. We are talking about a reason to say the color or a reason to say something other than the color. When someone steps in the center circle before the jump and says the color, while pointing the appropriate way, why don't they say "this way, that way?" What about reporting to the table. It seems like other things are based on communicating the colors the teams are wearing. Why is the use of color on an out of bounds play so easily dismissed when it could be just as easily used the same way as other times in the game?

Finally, "stay here" isn't a color.

[Edited by tomegun on Nov 18th, 2005 at 06:43 AM]

To nitpick only, if a player shoots, then a shot occured. To say "no shot" isn't as accurate as "on the floor." I personally say "no shot" as well. Just a curious thought that someone mentioned to me. Enjoy.

If a player throws the ball toward his/her basket after the ball has become dead, then it's not a try. So there's been "no shot".

"On the floor" is irrelevant to whether a player is in the act of shooting when the foul occured. The player can be on the floor and still be in the act of shooting. A player can be airborne and not be in the act of shooting. Stating the player's location is not an accurate reason for counting or cancelling the goal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
[B]If a player throws the ball toward his/her basket after the ball has become dead, then it's not a try. So there's been "no shot".</b>

If a player shoots the ball, it may not be a try, but it is still a shot at the basket. Just b/c its after the whistle has blown doesn't change that fact. I was just pointing out that it is kind of an incorrect description and that "on the floor" or just "floor" might be better.

I'm also arguing just to argue now. Sorry. Have a great day! :)

The crowd may think it's a shot, the player and his coach may think it's a shot. But it's not a shot.

It's not better for the reasons I stated above; namely, that it's irrelevant to what the official is really trying to say.

I'm used to arguing for the fun of it, so no offense taken. Argue. ;)

You mean we aren't there to communicate with the fans?! :) If everyone thinks its a shot, then we look like dumbass' (or dumbasses?) when we say "no shot!" But I digress, we all look like idiots to the fans anyways.

How about "before the shot"?

When you call a close foul here what is the mechanic? In my neck of the woods many officials will even give the no shot/no score signal as a preliminary to sell it so that everyone knows there is No Shot involved.

Just for the record, when I do say "On the floor" I don't mean where the player was when the foul was committed. I mean where the player will be when the ball is put into play.

I'm with you on this one. I use it to mean we are taking the ball out on the floor rather than shooting FT's. I have used both. "No shot" while waving the shot off and then pointing to the succeeding trhow-in spot I'll say "on the floor". But I never say, "over the back".

Ok, so I'm feelin' a little argumentative:

Are you saying the player can't jump up in the air and pass the ball inbounds? ;)

Or that aplayer must levitate in order to get a free throw.

I've got a friend that is about 12 emotionally, and she always thinks everything needs to be meant literally. I spend a couple or three hours a week with her, usually, and I certainly don't any more of that stuff from you!!

Uhmmm...no.

You can argue that "on the floor" is accepted jargon to designate "before the shot".

You can't argue that "on the floor" means we'll be "on the floor" when play resumes.

We are always "on the floor" when play resumes.

For the record...I sometimes say it, not usually. I prefer "NO SHOT!". Or "BEFORE THE SHOT!" But it happens I get lazy & say "on the floor". And when I do the only sh!t I take is from fellow officials.

No biggie.

I agree with you a lot more about the "stays here" than I do about "on the floor." "Stays here" is not clearly communicative, but I don't think that it is really harmful. Personally I don't use it and I would encourage others to call the color on OOB plays, it's more of an irritant than a problem.

"On the floor" is communicative, it clearly and definitively indicates that there was no continuous motion, and the foul occured before the shot. It is a good verbal sell in my opinion, after all, the official is also pointing to the floor and the spot as well. The difference between "No shot," "before the shot" and "on the floor" is simply semantics, and I think it is very nitpicky. Simply saying nothing in this situation often is a lack of communication and could lead to a problem in facilitating a speedy resumption of play. IMO an evaluator should encourage communication among the crew and between coaches and officials, not nitpick on semantics. More communication, even slightly imperfect communication is better than none at all.

Just to be a smat a#$. Dont we shoot FTs on the floor?

Well, I've been told that I kinda act 12 as well, so you should have plenty of good experience dealing with me. ;)

I guess the point I was trying to make (rather childishly) is the fact I agree that "on the floor" is an inappropriate term to use. It's a shot, or it's "no shot". It's also one of those nit-picky items that may not mean much except to those who critique others. So, ask your assignor or other higher-level officials if they feel it's appropriate. If they don't have a problem, then feel free to use that method of communication. If they feel it's not appropriate, then try to get out of the habit.

There are some small things I've worked hard on the past few years -- one is pointing and authoritatively calling out a color on an OOB play (of course I'd lose points in many places for not stopping the clock first before pointing, but that's OK :) ). I've not done that well ever since attending a women's college camp a few seasons ago.

Another is getting people to stop saying "on the floor." I find it a bad phrase as the shooting motion can begin while the player in control is "on the floor." Just as Chuck said.

Same for us. Fist, no shot signal, point to OOB spot. But only when it's one that needs to be sold.

If in doubt, I treat it as a shooting foul.

I catch myself saying "on the floor" at times too.

Another bad habit I am working hard at is signaling the out of bounds with the correct arm so you don't cross it over your body or turn your back.

One other one I have every now and then is saying "off blue, white". Too much thinking out loud on this one.


IMO these things are somewhat nit-picky from my worst critic...me.

[Edited by mj on Nov 20th, 2005 at 02:49 PM]

FWIW "off blue white" is not nitpicking. Makes you sound indecisive. Coach blue will be pissed, coach white will think he got a freebie.

Let me rephrase a little, there is a distinct pause in between me saying the colors. There is no indecision whatsoever.

I didn't say you are indecisive.

I said you sound indecisive.

When you say "off blue.....white" everyone else hears "BLUE!!!! errr....no, not really...I think I should have said WHITE!!!!"

Anyway, as I said it's for what it's worth. Maybe it's not worth much to you. :shrug:

perusing an old thread...
 

I noticed no one does their non-shooting fouls exactly like I do, which is instead of "on the floor", I'll say 'No' or 'no shot' followed by 'baseline' & point, 'sideline' & point, '1 & 1', or 'double bonus'. Seems to work for me.

I don't recall if I ever chimed in on this thread but I do it pretty much the way you do.

Sometimes I'll skip saying "sideline" or "baseline/endline" if it is obvious to everyone...bodies on the floor in the paint, foul at halfcourt sideline, etc.

Of course, I only verbalize the "No shot" if there was any remote possibility that the player was shooting or about to start a shot.

When I first started, I said "on the floor" to notate that the ball would be put into play by a throw in after a foul in addition to declaring that the foul occured before a shot (at the spot of the call). That was corrected at my first camp.

Now, I use the terms "before the shot" to notate the foul occured before the shooter was in the act of shooting and "out of bounds" to notate a throw in after a foul (rather than a free throw). After that, I have never been instructed at a camp that saying either of these things are incorrect.

When you think about it, "on the floor" doesn't really make much sense, since everything is on the floor. However, I don't think the use of these terms, by itself, is going to keep anyone out of state HS playoffs or off college staffs. But you need to adjust what you are doing to people you want to impress.

I attended an IAABO camp this summer.

IAABO's feeling was that too many unapproved signals were creeping into the game at all levels. They insisted on us using only proper mechanics and approved signals.

We were told not say such things as "on the floor" or "before the shot" and never ever put up one or two fingers immediately after blowing your whistle.
It was: be poised, under control and businesslike.

And no need to "sell" calls by doing such things as hopping across the court while "signaling" the block foul call.

It was: whistle (immediately spit out the whistle),fist straight up and high, color, number, prelim foul signal, tell partner who is shooting and how many or where ball is coming in from....hustle to reporting area, stop, gather your thoughs and report.

You do realize that IAABO mechanics are <b>not</b> approved mechanics though, right? Iirc, IAABO uses some of their own mechanics that are completely different than the ones found in the NFHS Officials Manual. It's fine to use those IAABO mechanics <b>if</b> IAABO is the governing body in your state. For states where IAABO isn't the governing body, which is most states, IAABO mechanics and interpretations are neither valid or approved.

The only approved mechanics and signals are the ones issued by the NFHS. Individual state bodies may choose to use different mechanics, but those mechanics are only valid and approved for that state.

IAABO is a rules-interpretive body, not a rules-making body. The same holds true for mechanics and signals also, unless a particular state governing body also votes to adopt IAABO-recommended mechanics. Just wanted to clear that up.

For example. . .?

Those darn thoughs, it's like sweeping water!

2 whistle-- positioning for TO's and also coverage of the lead's sideline above the FT line, as per your post in this thread:

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...AABO+mechanics

OK?

I don't think there's a difference in the coverage of the Lead's sideline. (Unless the FED is not telling the Trail to make the OOB call on the Lead's sideline above the FT line.) I don't remember that one. The only one that's different is the positioning for TO's. And that's not "completely different". It's just the old FED way, instead of the new (dumber) FED way.

Hey, I'm just going by your own words re: mechanics put out by IAABO. Are you saying that you can't be believed? :confused:

Um, after reviewing the evidence. . .

I just went back and re-read the link you posted. I guess I did say that the coverage on the Lead's sideline is different. I just forgot about that one.

Still, that's only two differences in the whole manual. And only one deals with coverage. And in my defense, MA doesn't follow the IAABO recommendation for the Trail to call the Lead's line above the FT line. So I had forgotten that was a difference. Sorry!!

"I'm NOT short. I prefer to think there is simply more space above my head for word balloons full of devastatingly pithy witticisms."
-- R. Stevens

So....

with all that space for pithy witticisms, you give us ......

what, exactly?

I'm thure that all of hith wittithithms are pithy.

Tho there....