Girls HS JV earlier in the week. Coach approach's me and partner at table. Announces she has a total deaf player in uniform. In addition - the school has provided a "signer" -a person familiar with sign language that will communicate to the player throughout the game. Asked if this would be a problem.

Coach went so far as to ask if the signer could wander the sideline base line to base line.

What we did:
We had a quick coach's conference. Identifed the player and the signer to the opposing coach. I asked the signer to choose - if you really want to run the total sideline - would you mind doing it opposite the bench's. If you stay only in the players bench area - you can stay on the bench side. i didn't want her wondering over to the opposing bench during play. During captains meeting we told captains about the situation - about the "stranger" that would be authorized to wonder the sidelines.

BTW, I think signer ran the sideline just once and then went bench side (!).

Worked out very well. Kid was pretty good too.

Any thoughts?

I'd treat the signer as any other coach -- stay seated except during a TO, etc.

Sounds like you handled it well. I'd probably approach it the same way. As long as the coaches are OK with things, do what you need to for the kid to play. You might want the AD from that school to contact the state association and maybe get a letter from them telling what accomodations referees are to make at games. The coach could take it along and present it before games so the officials know how this is to be handled. Just a suggestion.

I agree with Bob, by rule. I agree with Junker in that if another way were to be permitted, a letter from the state association would be needed.

I would go a little further than what Bob says, I would allow the coach to stand if the coach is giving sign language and not giving other instructions to other players.

I lived went to school in Missouri for one year and we played against the Missouri School of the Deaf twice a year because they were in our conference. It was a little strange at first when we would play them because you did not hear the same kind of chatter between teammates, but after a few minutes you did not even notice it. They were a lot of fun to deal with and I learned a lot about what they had to go through and how normal they seemed. I was better for the experience.

I would think common sense rules the day on this issue. Do whatever you can to make this player become normal in the situation. If the coach has to stand up, and give instructions, I would allow the signer to stand and give instructions. Unless they could come up with a way that would not be a concern and the “coach” would remain seated. Just my two cents on this issue.

Peace

I had my first totally deaf player last night. She comes to the table, shirt tail hanging out. I wave the opposing sub in and tell her to stay. She runs onto the floor. "Come back, 21!" No response. I hit the whistle and call to her again.

"She's deaf."

Then why in the hell didn't somebody tell us that before the game. :mad:

I'm just glad I didn't T her for running onto the floor, unbeckoned.

After the game, Coach asked if if he thought the signer could stand. I talked to the assignor this morning. He said no but possibly have her sit separately between the end of the bench and the table. But no standing.

I'd let the signer stand in the team's bench area. For signing to be of any use, the player would have to take their eyes off the court and there could be no possible advantage not intended by the rules: coaches are permitted to communicate with their players. In this case, the player needs and interpreter. The signer would not be permitted any other rights.

Why not just have the signer stand one row up in the bleachers?

I think the signer is an assistant coach and should be treated as such.

Also something to keep in mind is when you have a deaf player or team, it is really important to remind the opposing team during the coaches/captains meeting to stop on the whistle, because the deaf player is working off visual clues. If the hearing players continue playing so will the deaf players, and that can lead to trouble.

I once worked a game between two deaf teams and my partner and I were the only non-deaf people involved with the game. It made for a great experience and we really had to focus on our mechanics.

Like bob said.
 

The signer is coaching and in order to pass along the head coach's instructions she should be more available to coach speak than a fan would be.

I officiated with a single deaf athlete in the past and although I was told there would be a signer, the signer remained in the bench area and seated. The athlete was, perhaps, a 1/2 second late on the whistle, but she was quite aware of the entire game surroundings. ...A fine point guard on a very good team.

mick

Re: Like bob said.
 

Isn't the signer merely translating? :confused:

Re: Re: Like bob said.
 

How do I know ? :eek:

I gave my opinion on what to do is a personal issue. I really do not see a right or wrong here. I might even change my mind when faced with the situation for real and I see the reaction of the opposing coach. I just feel as officials should do whatever we can to accommodate to players with a hearing loss. I know in football I have had to deal with similar player issues and we did what we could to help out those players.

Peace

I wouldn't have a problem with that but I don't think he/she should be allowed to stand in the bench area.

so you wouldn't
 

let the signer stand by the bench area because that disrupts the game how? I dont see how having the signer in the stands helps -- what if the fans are actually standing and cheering -- how will said player see him/her and how in the hell will the signer hear the coach when all she can see is the back of his head? I would tell the signer to move where ever she needs to to get her message to the player as long as she does not interrupt the game or bother the other team or table.

Have the signer stay seated and if the coach is standing and giving instructions and not paying attention and hes infront of him/her the poor kid cant see -- talk about being overly judicious -- there is not deaf section of the rule book so just use common sense and let this kid with a disadvantage have every possible chance to play fairly with the rest of the kids. Sit in the stands -- pfft ridiculous --

The player is deaf, not blind.
Sit the signer.
mick

OK, what am I missing?

What do we need a signer for during a live ball?

There are only a limited number of set plays, isn't it possible for the coach to figure out a way to communicate while the ball is live? And teach that to the rest of his student athletes?

btw...I've worked 1 game with a deaf player, and 1 game with a player who understood virtually zero English. In both cases the coach, the assistants and all the players figured out a way to tell me before the game that the player in question was challenged and I shouldn't think he's ignoring me.

That confirms what I've thought for years. My coaches are dumber than most. :)

Nah, I don't think so.

I'm sure mine are dumber ;)

I have had deaf players and had the signer on the sideline. Given what happens on the bench I have no problem with a translator standing there as long as it is all they do for the head coach.

If they are acting as an assistant standing alone and telling the player something and coach has not said anything I may question it.

Have them go from baseline to baseline- NO WAY. One team can not have an advantage. You can see sign from a distance. There are coaches thatwrite play #'s on samll whiteboards to signal.

The bottom line is that there cant be an advantage over the other team using commn sense.

A few years ago, there was a very dominant team here in the Portland area with a deaf player. She was very, very good, so they had worked out a number of adaptations. The interesting thing was that whenever there was a need to communicate with her during a live ball, there was a set of signals (signs?) that all the players and ALL THE FANS!! would do, like they were cheers. It worked! She didn't have to pick one person out to look at, and there wasn't a person running the sidelines for the translating thing.

The other interesting thing was that when there was a time-out, there were several fans whose job it was to stand up right behind the bench, so no one could see the interpreter. Like the coaches on TV that hold the clipboard over their mouths.

Have refereed in a few deaf tournaments plus the World Deaf games a few years back, we had no problems in regards to a signer which was done from the team bench. We used whistles with peas in them as the players could feel or hear the vibrations of the pea, Fox40 whistles were useless to use.

Re: so you wouldn't
 

As you say, there is no "deaf section" in the rulebook. We have to, therefore, work with the rules we have. And those rules tell us that only the head coach is allowed to stand in the bench area. It hardly seems overly judicious to enforce this explicit restriction. If you allow the interpreter to stand, are you going to allow an assistant coach on the other team to stand, as well? B/c you know the other coach will ask.

So how do you get around that explicit restriction? Either the interpreter stays in the bench area, but must remain seated; or we find another place for the interpreter where s/he can stand.

Sorry if that is -- pfft -- ridiculous.

Re: so you wouldn't
 

No, I wouldn't let the signer stand.

Evidently you haven't been to very many basketball games if you think you can't hear a coach just because his back is to you. If the coach isn't "paying attention?" Gimme a frickin' break! It's his player. If he's not "paying attention," that his problem, not mine. -- pfft ridiculous.

Why do we need a signer during live ball? coaches should be communicating enough in practice with ways for teams to communicate. Theres a school with one. EVERYTIME I had that school the coach would beckon me over to the table during warm-ups. We'd get the other coach and explain that he had a deaf player, who relied off of visual cues to play and that everyones quick stoppage on the whistle was required for a smooth game. One of the assistants would sign to him if needed be. I told him he was only allowed to stand and sign. If he talked, or verbalized anything to anyone else he would be belted. Also, if he had to stand, the head coach had to sit. (They were techinically co-head coaches). No problems... what so-ever. Kid was a post player. So he was responsive. My partner and I agreed to both hit our whistles as an echo. Apparantly he's not completly deaf because he can feel the pressure of the fox 40 on his ears from the particual frequency it emits. Being an audio engineer as well, it makes sense to me.

I once had a development game where the referees were instructed not to talk at all - the idea was that it would be good preperation for doing international games with a non-english speaking parter and team(s). Was a great learning experience as you had to focus on mechanics. I found it really hard, as I try to talk players out of violations/fouls a lot.

I agree with what a couple of people said early on, that school should get this settled with the state office and that way they will have the same peramiters(sp) for each game. What coach wants to re-explain this at each game? He will get several different answers. The AD needs to get the state office involved before the season starts.

Who said it had to be during a live ball. The rules don't permit anyone to stand except the HC during a dead ball either.

WARNING: This post contains ranting and raving which some readers may find offensive. If you prefer to avoid ranting and raving situations, please use your back button to return to the bulletin board and find a less emotional post.

Chris -- The spelling is either "parameter" or "perimeter" depending on what you're trying to say. I hope you're saying "perimeter" which has to do with limits and boundaries, but I fear you were intending to say "parameters" which is what most people say with this meaning. Unfortunately, a parameter is a specific type of item in a mathematical or scientific equation, and doesn't mean edges, limits or boundaries, except in certain very restricted meanings. One hears it more and more, though, with the meaning of "limits, boundaries, restrictions." "Perimeter" -- the edge of a geometrical figure -- has a much closer definition and would fit your sentence much better. So please tell me that is what you were trying to spell!

Thanks.

End rant. You may now return to your regularly scheduled bulletin board.

Since were off on a tangent....

Juulie, I actually think parameter can be applicable. Parameters are the terms under which something functions.

Perimiters are just about the edges, not the space enclosed by the perimeter.

http://www.forumspile.com/Care-Map.jpg

Please note that the above was a weak attempt at humor. There's no need to go all MTD Sr. on me. :D

Hey, that's a map of my house!!! ;)

This reminds me of one of my fayvorite stories
 

I had an all deaf team in their 20's - most of them could hear the whistle, so that helped. Most of them were pretty skillful - but not the bruiser in the middle. I fouled him out, and, while leaving the floor he was gesticulating at me and making noises directed at me. I said - and I had been told the team could all read lips - "That's enough". And he said "Eff you"., clearly enough that I could read HIS lips. I teed him up . . .