situations:

5 second throw in rule..... Player throwing in releases ball at 4.5 seconds on a long high looping pass that is caught 3 seconds after release..... 7.5 since count started...... violation??? or not???


top of backboard... in/ out????? ever vary????


thanks.

The throw-in count ends when the thrower releases the ball on the pass, so no violation has been committed.

The top edge of the backboard is inbounds in every rules set and level of play of which I am aware.

Just to add a little to Nevadaref's response, which is absolutely correct:

It is a violation for the ball to pass over the top of the backboard. (To be absolutely precise, this is only the case for rectangular backboards---but when is the last time you saw a fan-shaped backboard?) The back of the backboard is considered out of bounds. The top, bottom, sides, and front are considered in bounds.

The count ends when the ball is realeased to echo the others. I have a question I just thought of... On a ten second count in the backcourt does the ball have to be possessed by someone on the same team in the front court before ten seconds?

I say yes but don't have my rule books here to confirm it.

Never in a varsity game... every so often you will encounter one in a middle school/ jr. high game. Or a Boys & Girls club gym. And when you have them... IT SUCKS!

You wouldn't be able to confirm it even if you had your rule books available. :)

The answer is no. The 10-second count terminates as soon as the ball hits the floor or <b>any</b> player, including opponents, in the frontcourt too. That includes hitting an official in the front court also.

Casebook play 9.8SitB.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 1st, 2005 at 09:08 AM]

A couple times a year at a quaint gym in Darrington, Washington that could be right out of the movie, "Hoosiers." Love it.

Z

Could be. Except for the minor detail that it's in Darrington, Washington. :)

FWIW
 

The old high school gymnasium in Knightstown served as the gym for fictional Hickory High. Today, it's fully restored as a community center, and it's open for tours. You can sit in the stands and remind yourself, yet again, that people from Indiana are the greatest basketball fans in the world.

http://www.thehoosiergym.com/

When Hollywood is involved, anything is possible.

Z

Last Thursday, doing girls' jr. high games. A couple of schools have them, so we have to dust off the cobwebs. Always funny how the shots change with those (metal fan-shaped) backboards.

top of backboard
 

I think that one thing that is confusing to some people is that many goals are constructed in such a way that the ball cannot touch the top edge of the board without also touching some part of the structure which supports the board. When a ball touches this supporting structure it is out of bounds. This leads to the inevitable comments,
"Last night at (some other gym) they called it out when it hit the top."

Sort of on the topic of fan shaped backboards, the Iowa girl's test this year included a question about restraining lines. I had to look and think hard on that one. I don't know that I've ever worked a game that used them.

One of the things that aids my Officiating is my excellent knowledge of Physics. I have trouble with a pass being in the air for 3 seconds? Assuming it was thrown and caught at approximately the same height off the court:

It would take the ball 1.5 seconds to reach it's apex highest point) and an equal 1.5 secons to fall to it's starting height.

Velocity = Acceleration X Time
V= 32.2 ft/sec2 x 1.5 seconds
V= 48 ft/sec. This is the vertical "muzzle velocity" of the throw and the vertical velocity of the ball when caught. Horizonatl velocity is inconsequential. I'm sure you all agree that a bullet fired from a "level" barrel 6 feet off the ground will hit the ground exactly at the same time as another bullet dropped from that same height.

Velocity = Sqaure Roof of 2g x H
48x48 = 64.4 x H
H= 36 feet!

Most gyms having ceilings 25 feet high as they are of masonry construction and limited in height by the National Concrete Masonry Code. This story is getting very dubious......

Nice analysis!

FIBA - violation - the 5 second count stops when a player (in a legal position on the court) touches the ball

Yet another reason why FIBA is idiotic.

We have a HS gym out here that has fan-shaped backboards. They play varsity games in it. A couple of seasons ago they even hosted a regional playoff game there.

I wouldn't say it's idiotic. High School (and NCAA, I think) used to be the same way. When did the HS rule change? Late '80s?

I think the new rule is better, but obviously people used to think FIBA's way made sense. It prevents the unlikely secenario of an inbounder dropping the ball onto the playing court and nobody touching it for 8 minutes. :)

You're right. The high school and NCAA rule at one time was 5 seconds from the time the thrower got the ball until it was touched on the court. Made for some interesting calls- like a whistle blowing while a long throw-in was in the air to the front court. I think that they changed it years before the early 80's though, iirc.

Personally, I don't think that the FIBA rule is idiotic- just different. The players will adjust to whatever rule they're given anyway.

WTF - get off your high-horse! It actually makes a lot more sense. The game clock doesn't start until a player touches the ball, therefor the 5 second count doesn't stop until the same.

If anything, the NFHS/NCAA rules don't make sense. Under these rules a player could throw the ball in, no one touch it, so the clock doesn't start, and this could happen indefinitely - what a crazy situation! This sitch could NEVER happen under FIBA rules, as a 5 second violation would be called.

Oh I'm sorry - since I disagree with you I'm obviously an idiot!

Duane,
How's your Spring?
Lotsa flowers?
:)
mick

If the ball is still in flight? Example: Count is at 9.5/10 I throw the ball from my backcourt to the front court (one of those high arching Joe Montana passes LOL!) and as the official gets to ten he has a 10 second violation. Is he correct?

ThickSkin
Well, yeah the official is correct.
But my count was at 9.6, ..... 9.7.
M'bad.
mick

That is my thought as well. I just wanted to be 100% sure. I don't see myself <b>EVER</b> calling that!

What does that have to do with your original question above- outlined in red?

You said "does the ball have to be <b>possessed</b> by someone on the same team in the front court before ten seconds". You said "yes". I said "ABSOLUTELY NOT". The ball only has to obtain front-court location to end the 10-second count. The ball does <b>NOT</b> have to be "possessed by someone on the same team" to gain front court location. The ball can gain front court location without ever touching the team in possession. That's exactly what the cited case book play is telling you.

G'day Mick,

Spring sure has sprung!! Today is about 32degress (cetigrade - around 90 F)

Looks like it's going to be a hot summer - whats the weather like there?

Ah, go have cold one and chill out. I'm just participating in Padgett's favorite activity -- FIBA bashing for the sake of FIBA bashing (or is it the French?). :)

I don't really care one way or the other about how the rule is written.

PS FIBA could change all of their rules to match the NCAA and their governance would still be idiotic! :D

Now just wait until the real FIBA basher shows up...

30-50 F cloudy. :(

Yeah, I know. I didn't get my thoughts together before I posted. If the ball has front court status i.e. floor, team A, team B, official... then the ten second count stops. What I should have asked was if the ball is still in <b> <font color = red>flight</b> <font color = black> does the ten second count stop. Thank you for the clarification though!

[Edited by ThickSkin on Nov 3rd, 2005 at 08:23 AM]

This is from the NCAA rulebook. I expect that NFHS is the same.

A.R. 17. (Men) A1 is in the back court and has dribbled for eight seconds when he passes the ball forward toward A2 in the front court. While the ball is in the air, going from back court to front court, the 10-second count expires.
RULING: Violation. The ball shall be awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where A1 was standing when he threw the ball.

Yes, it is the same. Thanks!

This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right.

Different does not mean wrong.

C'mon Duanne,
Even that motorcycle you were selling a coupla years ago was on the wrong side of the road, wasn't it? ;)
mick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oz Referee

Quote:

This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right. Different does not mean wrong.

Puh-leeze.

Take your tediously holier-than-thou attitude and simply shove it.

Hey that's the one thing that I will give you - you do drive on the right side of the road (literaly). Belive me I wish we did, car prices would drop significantly overnight.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right. Different does not mean wrong. Puh-leeze. Take your tediously holier-than-thou attitude and simply shove it.

Get stuffed! I thought this forum was supposed to be for the discussion of BASKETBALL rules and the education of basketball officials - not for FIBA bashing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oz Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right. Different does not mean wrong. Puh-leeze. Take your tediously holier-than-thou attitude and simply shove it. Get stuffed! I thought this forum was supposed to be for the discussion of BASKETBALL rules and the education of basketball officials - not for FIBA bashing.

If that's what you thought then you obviously suspended thought when you made the post which exposed you as a tedious holier-than-thou thin-skinned twit.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right. Different does not mean wrong. Puh-leeze. Take your tediously holier-than-thou attitude and simply shove it. Get stuffed! I thought this forum was supposed to be for the discussion of BASKETBALL rules and the education of basketball officials - not for FIBA bashing. If that's what you thought then you obviously suspended thought when you made the post which exposed you as a tedious holier-than-thou thin-skinned twit.

Hey all I did was respond to a post that said that the difference between FIBA's rule and the NFHS rule was another example of how stupid FIBA is. Explain to me how that is "holier-than-thou"?

Oh, and by the way - how about you leave out the personal attacks?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oz Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by Oz Referee Quote: This is exactly the sort of thing that gives Americans a lousy reputation. Some (and I'm NOT saying all) Americans have this weird idea that because they are the ones doing something a particular way - that makes it right. Different does not mean wrong. Puh-leeze. Take your tediously holier-than-thou attitude and simply shove it. Get stuffed! I thought this forum was supposed to be for the discussion of BASKETBALL rules and the education of basketball officials - not for FIBA bashing. If that's what you thought then you obviously suspended thought when you made the post which exposed you as a tedious holier-than-thou thin-skinned twit. Hey all I did was respond to a post that said that the difference between FIBA's rule and the NFHS rule was another example of how stupid FIBA is. Explain to me how that is "holier-than-thou"? Oh, and by the way - how about you leave out the personal attacks?

Obviously nevada's comment was stupid. Your response was just stupider. And tedious. And holier-than-thou. And dim witted. You have an issue with nevada, work it out with him.

It's the height of simple minded arrogance ("holier-than-thou") to use use your disagreement with him to justify insulting anyone else.

But hey, at least you were good enough to allow that not all of the people you insulted deserved it.

:rolleyes:

Can't we all just get along?

(To which the only response is for Dan, Duane, ThickSkin, mick, Nevada, Chuck, Jurassic, and anyone else on this thread to join togeher and shout in unison "Shut up!!")

:)
I still cannot say that.

Sorry, I forgot. Mission still accomplished to get them to yell at someone else.