Crazy end of game situation.

moref · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:02pm

I was doing a holiday tournament championship game a couple of years ago and a team was trailing by five points with just under twenty seconds or so to play. I was not the referee and it was just a two-man that night. Well The team down by five come down after a missed free throw and nailed a three pointer cutting the lead to two with under five seconds to play and also they did NOT have a timeout left . What happened next was the crazy part. As soon as they hit the three one of their players grabbed the ball and knocked it way over to the side. Well my partner stops the clock while the ball is being retrieved and to me it should have either warranted just letting the clock run out or asssessing a technical foul for the end of game tactic. The coach said I told them to do it to stop the clock. The other teams coach was going nuts as you could imagine We had a little huddle and discussed it and my partner (who was the referee) decided to take the ball out of bounds. They inbounded the ball and were fouled immediately . We went to the other end to shoot the one and one with three seconds left in the contest. Yes you guessed it he missed the front end and the other team got the rebound threw one pass to around midcourt and heaved up a desperation potential game winning three at the buzzer and luckily for me and my partner it bounced off the front of the rim WHEW. I Want some feedback on this so it does not happen to anyone else at the end of a game. I know now this was not the way to handle the situation, but I was not sure at the time. I like reading the posts on this site some have really been help to me.

[Edited by moref on Oct 24th, 2005 at 11:18 PM]

IREFU2 · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:21pm

I probably would have gave the kid a Technical Foul for unsportsman like conduct. That was an intentional delay of game to get an advantage. Just my 2 cents.

ThickSkin · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moref
The coach said I told them to do it to stop the clock.

There is you answer right there. T - delay of game or I am sure there is something like travesty of the game.

Junker · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:23pm

Without looking anything up (that's my disclaimer if I boot this), I'd say you stop the clock, have the scorer record a delay of game warning on the team that knocked the ball out, and you inbound as normal. If they've already had a delay warning, then you can call a T. I think that's your only option under NFHS.

Junker · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:28pm

They are entitled to a warning under NFHS rules though. I'd say calling this a travesty is pushing it.

rainmaker · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
Without looking anything up (that's my disclaimer if I boot this), I'd say you stop the clock, have the scorer record a delay of game warning on the team that knocked the ball out, and you inbound as normal. If they've already had a delay warning, then you can call a T. I think that's your only option under NFHS.

There's always 2-3. Seriously, you'd stop the clock, give the warning and let the team that did this inbound the ball? Wow.

If partners could agree by eye contact somehow, I'd say the best choice would be to let the clock run out. Once you stop the clock, I think you've got to whack. The word in the rule book that applies is "travesty," as ThickSkin noted.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moref
I was doing a holiday tournament championship game a couple of years ago and a team was trailing by five points with just under twenty seconds or so to play. I was not the referee and it was just a two-man that night. Well The team down by five come down after a missed free throw and nailed a three pointer cutting the lead to two with under five seconds to play and also they did NOT have a timeout left . What happened next was the crazy part. As soon as they hit the three one of their players grabbed the ball and knocked it way over to the side. Well my partner stops the clock while the ball is being retrieved and to me it should have either warranted just letting the clock run out or asssessing a technical foul for the end of game tantic. The coach said I told them to do it to stop the clock. The other teams coach was going nuts as you could imagine We had a little huddle and discussed it and my partner (who was the referee) decided to take the ball out of bounds. They inbounded the ball and were fouled immediately . We went to the other end to shoot the one and one with three seconds left in the contest. Yes you guessed it he missed the front end and the other team got the rebound threw one pass to around midcourt and heaved up a desperation potential game winning three at the buzzer and luckily for me and my partner it bounced off the front of the rim WHEW. I Want some feedback on this so it does not happen to anyone else at the end of a game. I know now this was not the way to handle the situation, but I was not sure at the time. I like reading the posts on this site some have really been help to me.

I am not about to climb up into the attic, but it does not matter whether Team B has has received a delay of game warning or not. B1's actions are a technical foul charged to B1 for delay of game. There is a casebook play that addresses this type of action by B1 directly.

MTD, Sr.

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:33pm

If it had been a rough game, I might even T or toss the coach for telling his players to do this. What a you-know-what.

moref · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:33pm

I also might add that is exactly what he wanted me to do is give him a warning, but I just don't know if a T would help either as they could miss both free throws an the inbounds pass at halfcourt could be stolen. If under five seconds I think just let the clock run out.

[Edited by moref on Oct 21st, 2005 at 02:37 PM]

ThickSkin · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:35pm

I believe that travesty was emphasized in the rule book to prevent teams from having one of their players run to the endline and bark like a dog to distract the other team. So maybe in this case, that is pushing it a little.

Honestly, had this been me I would have either let the clock run out or T the kid... and then probably his/her coach LOL!

Grail · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:37pm

I am not about to climb up into the attic, but it does not matter whether Team B has has received a delay of game warning or not. B1's actions are a technical foul charged to B1 for delay of game. There is a casebook play that addresses this type of action by B1 directly.

MTD, Sr. [/B][/QUOTE]

There is definitely a case book play on this. It says you can T immediately in this case.

Had a similar play a couple of years ago. Scoring situation is exactly the same as in this play. 5 seconds on the clock when the 3 went through. Leading team wouldn't even pick up the ball to inbound it. Trailing team tried to bat the ball to the inbounder, but the inbounder did an OLE and the ball goes to the wall. My partner T'd the leading team for "Unsportsmanlike" because they wouldn't pick up the ball. Fortuantely it all worked out, as all the shots were missed. We looked it up and found the case play.

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:41pm

From Dictionary.com:

trav·es·ty n. pl. trav·es·ties

1. An exaggerated or grotesque imitation...

2. A debased or grotesque likeness: a travesty of justice.

I think this play qualifies.

Junker · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:44pm

My point was, again without looking, how is this situation different than a player batting the ball oob in order for their team to set up a press? In that situation, you give a formal warning. I can see where a coach, in this situation would instruct a play to throw the ball oob thinking that he would recieve a warning. I looked at this year's casebook quickly and didn't see this particular play mentioned, but I'd gladly rethink this if someone can tell me where it is.

jritchie · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Grail

I am not about to climb up into the attic, but it does not matter whether Team B has has received a delay of game warning or not. B1's actions are a technical foul charged to B1 for delay of game. There is a casebook play that addresses this type of action by B1 directly.

MTD, Sr.

There is definitely a case book play on this. It says you can T immediately in this case.

Had a similar play a couple of years ago. Scoring situation is exactly the same as in this play. 5 seconds on the clock when the 3 went through. Leading team wouldn't even pick up the ball to inbound it. Trailing team tried to bat the ball to the inbounder, but the inbounder did an OLE and the ball goes to the wall. My partner T'd the leading team for "Unsportsmanlike" because they wouldn't pick up the ball. Fortuantely it all worked out, as all the shots were missed. We looked it up and found the case play. [/B][/QUOTE]

Seems like if the offense didn't want to pick the ball up, we should just start the 5 count, we can't make them pick it up, and when we get to 5, we blow our whistle or the horn goes off before we get to 5... which is most likely what will happen and the game is over anyways!!!! They have 5 seconds to throw it in, whether they are trying to throw in or not.... if the kid is standing there with the ball and not even trying to throw it in, we are counting, isn't that the same thing??? either way you get a 5 second count or game over!

Grail · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 21, 2005, 01:57pm

There is definitely a case book play on this. It says you can T immediately in this case.

Had a similar play a couple of years ago. Scoring situation is exactly the same as in this play. 5 seconds on the clock when the 3 went through. Leading team wouldn't even pick up the ball to inbound it. Trailing team tried to bat the ball to the inbounder, but the inbounder did an OLE and the ball goes to the wall. My partner T'd the leading team for "Unsportsmanlike" because they wouldn't pick up the ball. Fortuantely it all worked out, as all the shots were missed. We looked it up and found the case play. [/B][/QUOTE]

Seems like if the offense didn't want to pick the ball up, we should just start the 5 count, we can't make them pick it up, and when we get to 5, we blow our whistle or the horn goes off before we get to 5... which is most likely what will happen and the game is over anyways!!!! They have 5 seconds to throw it in, whether they are trying to throw in or not.... if the kid is standing there with the ball and not even trying to throw it in, we are counting, isn't that the same thing??? either way you get a 5 second count or game over! [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. That's the best answer, but when the ball went to the wall my partner felt he had to call something. He got it wrong, thus prompting the research.