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-   -   Hands and Legs During Free throws (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/22763-hands-legs-during-free-throws.html)

regs12 Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:34pm


Is there a rule that prevents players from putting there hands into the other lane space during free throw. not touching another and not disconcerting the thrower, just sort of "spreading out" as you often see?

rainmaker Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by regs12

Is there a rule that prevents players from putting there hands into the other lane space during free throw. not touching another and not disconcerting the thrower, just sort of "spreading out" as you often see?

yes, there is a rule. someone else will have to find the citation, I don't know it.

Camron Rust Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:49am

There is no such rule. They may place their hands and arms where ever they wish. If while doing so they make contact, you may have the option of calling a foul. However, I've never seen it called.

Nevadaref Fri Oct 21, 2005 05:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
There is no such rule. They may place their hands and arms where ever they wish. If while doing so they make contact, you may have the option of calling a foul. However, I've never seen it called.
Camron is correct.
One of my pet peeves is when officials tell players not to do things that are legal. I frequently hear officials tell players to keep their hands/arms in their own spaces during FTs.
That is flat out wrong.

BayStateRef Fri Oct 21, 2005 07:09am

See Case Book 9.1.9 Situation A (c).

Arms may extend outside the marked lane space. Feet may not.

ChuckElias Fri Oct 21, 2005 09:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I frequently hear officials tell players to keep their hands/arms in their own spaces during FTs. That is flat out wrong.
I say this all the time. Girls usually, but also increasingly guys as well, do the "my arm is over your arm" nonsense. I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.

assignmentmaker Fri Oct 21, 2005 09:40am

BayStateRef
 
Quote:

Originally posted by BayStateRef
See Case Book 9.1.9 Situation A (c).

Arms may extend outside the marked lane space. Feet may not.

I agree with Nevada that there appears to be no explicit prohibition in the rules regarding players reaching out (but not touching someone).

But I don't think 9.1.9 Situation A (c) grants permission to reach out. It says "extends arms over the area between the lane spaces", then describes the 'neutral zone' and the 2" wide lines that mark the rest of the spaces. Perhaps this very narrow issue is what's addressed. Ought that which is not explicitly permitted be presumed denied? Perhaps.

Consider the case where B1's arm is extended and dribbler A1 doesn't run into it. Nothing happened. Analogously, if B2 in the low block position extends an arm in front of the player in the next marked lane space, A2, and A2 doesn't contact it . . . nothing happened . . . yet . . . but often there is arm contact, followed by more arm contact, followed by more arm contact. You might say 'lay off', before you do end up with a double personal foul . . .


Dan_ref Fri Oct 21, 2005 09:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I frequently hear officials tell players to keep their hands/arms in their own spaces during FTs. That is flat out wrong.
I say this all the time. Girls usually, but also increasingly guys as well, do the "my arm is over your arm" nonsense. I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.

Me too.

Ref in PA Fri Oct 21, 2005 09:54am

Lots of times, when the arms are extended in front of an opponent, B1 will hold A1 such that B1 will get prime boxing out positioning. That is a foul. I will also tell the players to knock if off if they are playing pitty-pat with their arms prior to the FT. I will also tell them not to hold their opponents or enter the lane early. These warnings (if necessary) will be made as I announce and administer the FT. The whistle will clean it up if necessary.

Jurassic Referee Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I frequently hear officials tell players to keep their hands/arms in their own spaces during FTs. That is flat out wrong.
I say this all the time. Girls usually, but also increasingly guys as well, do the "my arm is over your arm" nonsense. I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.

Me too.

Me three.

ChuckElias Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.
Me too.

Me three.

You like me!! You really like me!!!

rainmaker Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by regs12

Is there a rule that prevents players from putting there hands into the other lane space during free throw. not touching another and not disconcerting the thrower, just sort of "spreading out" as you often see?

yes, there is a rule. someone else will have to find the citation, I don't know it.

Yea, okay, everyone else is right. I was thrown off by...

...let's see...

..oh, yeah, by the title of the thread, that's it. There are feet in the title of the thread and it confused me. Right...

Jurassic Referee Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.
Me too.

Me three.

You like me!! You really like me!!!

Shut up.

ChuckElias Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Shut up.
54 minutes. Took you long enough. :D

Dan_ref Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Shut up.
54 minutes. Took you long enough. :D

JR & I spent the last hour emailing each other back & forth to decide whether we like you, or if we REALLY like you.

The discussion has moved a bit, now we're just trying to decide if we like you.

btw...shut up


jritchie Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
Lots of times, when the arms are extended in front of an opponent, B1 will hold A1 such that B1 will get prime boxing out positioning. That is a foul. I will also tell the players to knock if off if they are playing pitty-pat with their arms prior to the FT. I will also tell them not to hold their opponents or enter the lane early. These warnings (if necessary) will be made as I announce and administer the FT. The whistle will clean it up if necessary.

While this "pity pat" (i like that by the way!!) is going on and you are telling them to knock it off, WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED DISCONCERTION??? If so, by who, you for talking or the defense for trying to get his/her hand over the offenses?? :)

Ref in PA Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
Lots of times, when the arms are extended in front of an opponent, B1 will hold A1 such that B1 will get prime boxing out positioning. That is a foul. I will also tell the players to knock if off if they are playing pitty-pat with their arms prior to the FT. I will also tell them not to hold their opponents or enter the lane early. These warnings (if necessary) will be made as I announce and administer the FT. The whistle will clean it up if necessary.

While this "pity pat" (i like that by the way!!) is going on and you are telling them to knock it off, WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED DISCONCERTION??? If so, by who, you for talking or the defense for trying to get his/her hand over the offenses?? :)

The pitty-pat I refer to is when B1 puts his arm in front of A1 and A1 resonds by placing his arm in front of B1. Then B1 now moves his arm over A1's arm and A1 moves his arm over B1's arm. This action usually goes on before the shooter has the ball, therefore disconcertion is usually not involved. If it happens after the shooter has the ball, it can certainly be considered. If I see it happening then, like on the first shot of a 1-1, I will tell them to knock it off and then judiciously use my whistle to enforce my warning if it was not heeded by the players.

Nevadaref Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
The pitty-pat I refer to is when B1 puts his arm in front of A1 and A1 resonds by placing his arm in front of B1. Then B1 now moves his arm over A1's arm and A1 moves his arm over B1's arm. This action usually goes on before the shooter has the ball, therefore disconcertion is usually not involved. If it happens after the shooter has the ball, it can certainly be considered. If I see it happening then, like on the first shot of a 1-1, I will tell them to knock it off and then judiciously use my whistle to enforce my warning if it was not heeded by the players.

I stand there and watch. If the contact rises to the level of a foul, I call it. Otherwise, this is legal.

Adam Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:21pm

How about we just stop, stare at the two players, and announce quietly, "When you two are done playing patty-cake, we'll continue with the game."

Jurassic Referee Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
How about we just stop, stare at the two players, and announce quietly, "When you two are done playing patty-cake, we'll continue with the game."
A simple "Cut that sh!t out" has always worked well for me.

cdaref Sat Oct 22, 2005 05:23pm

I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)

BktBallRef Sat Oct 22, 2005 05:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
The pitty-pat I refer to is when B1 puts his arm in front of A1 and A1 resonds by placing his arm in front of B1. Then B1 now moves his arm over A1's arm and A1 moves his arm over B1's arm. This action usually goes on before the shooter has the ball, therefore disconcertion is usually not involved. If it happens after the shooter has the ball, it can certainly be considered. If I see it happening then, like on the first shot of a 1-1, I will tell them to knock it off and then judiciously use my whistle to enforce my warning if it was not heeded by the players.

I stand there and watch. If the contact rises to the level of a foul, I call it. Otherwise, this is legal.

So using that same prinicple, when two post players are banging away in the lane, you never talk to them or use any preventive officiating? You just there and watch and if the contact rises to the level of a foul, you call it?

canuckrefguy Sat Oct 22, 2005 07:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I frequently hear officials tell players to keep their hands/arms in their own spaces during FTs. That is flat out wrong.
I say this all the time. Girls usually, but also increasingly guys as well, do the "my arm is over your arm" nonsense. I don't tell them it's illegal by rule. I just tell them to knock it off. And they do.

Me too.

Preventative officiating...

Jurassic Referee Sat Oct 22, 2005 07:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

ChuckElias Sun Oct 23, 2005 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

BktBallRef Sun Oct 23, 2005 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

They didn't have kids way back then! ;)

Dan_ref Sun Oct 23, 2005 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

They didn't have kids way back then! ;)

They didn't have "way back then" way back then.

Jurassic Referee Sun Oct 23, 2005 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

They didn't have kids way back then! ;)

They didn't have "way back then" way back then.

O, you guys........

You're silly.

I presume that you are kidding.

Right?

Dan_ref Sun Oct 23, 2005 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

They didn't have kids way back then! ;)

They didn't have "way back then" way back then.

O, you guys........

You're silly.

I presume that you are kidding.

Right?

I never kid.

Jurassic Referee Sun Oct 23, 2005 05:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by cdaref
I presume you are kidding and that you dont really say "sh!t" to the kids. :)
I never kid.

Don't you mean that you never were a kid?

They didn't have kids way back then! ;)

They didn't have "way back then" way back then.

O, you guys........

You're silly.

I presume that you are kidding.

Right?

I never kid.

Oh.....

In that case.......

Shut up.


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