#53. A-1 lifts his/her pivot foot and then throws the ball toward A-2.A-2 does not see the thrown ball. After the ball hits the floor,A-1 is the first to touch the ball.Official rules this is an illegal start of a dribble.Is the official correct?

Certainly seems like some kind of violation but "an illegal start of a dribble."? Same as double dribble in anybody's opinion? Wording seems tricky to me.

Since A1 lifted his/her pivot foot before starting the dribble, this is a travel.

Official is basically correct. It is not a double dribble. It is a violation even if A1 had not previously dribbled. As Lotto said...traveling.

But he didnt say anything about a dribble, just a pass. The pivot foot can be lifted, not put back to the floor. But is cant be lifted before the start of a dribble.

If A1 is the first to touch the ball, his intended "pass" now becomes a "dribble", and all pertinent dribble rules apply. The official was correct.

How, then/if, does this apply.

Same basic scenerio. A1 lifts foot and attempts a shot, but the shot falls short without ever hitting the rim/backboard and he/she gets their own rebound; perfectly legal. Why would you have "no viollation" in this scenerio and a "travel" when the attempted pass was fumbled in the given scenerio when both situations involve a player lifting their pivot foot initially without starting a dribble and ending up dribbling?

My thoughts exactly.

Because team control ends on the release of the try

A shot ends team possession, and player possession. Thus, anything that happens after that shot is different.

Oh I see know, maybe its along the lines of a player cant dribble, fumble and dribble again???

Because the rules (interpretations) on a try are different.

In the initial scenario it's not a fumble. It's a pass. If a player receives a pass but fumbles the catch, he can go get it and then begin a dribble. You can fumble, dribble, fumble but you can't dribble, fumble, dribble. In the situation above, A1 passed the ball. A1 cannot go and recover the ball and start over. If A1 had ended his dribble and then passed the ball with his pivot foot off the ground, he can't go get it. If, however, A1, when ending his dribble, fumbles the ball away and goes and retrieves it, legal. He can then pass or shoot but can't dribble. As every one else has posted, the dribble rules apply.

Presuming that A-1 has already used their dribble, this is an illegal start of a dribble. I was educated to this fact by NevadaRef during a discussion about the way to travel without the ball, there is only one.

It doesn't matter if A-1 used their dribble, you cannot start a dribble with your pivot foot of the florr.

In English, that means "off the floor." :D

Man, Grail, IREFU2, and Bob are all slow as molasses today. They posted the same basic answer I did a whole two minutes after me. :)

yes, very slow. It must be thrusday.

Sorry, I hadn't had my morning caffeine yet.

I agree, it is a violation. But, what is the violation?
Are you gonna signal travelling on an illegal dribble, or illegal dribble on a traveling violation?

Traveling.

Rule 4-44-3(c) under the heading/section of <b>TRAVELING</b>.