<I>"The NBA apparently stands for something other than National Basketball Association.

"No Bling Allowed," said Hamilton, who, like many players around the league, expressed his displeasure with Commissioner David Stern's new dress code.

"I don't agree with it," Hamilton said. "You can't dictate how people dress."

Beginning Nov. 1, players will have to wear business casual attire at team and league activities, including when they arrive at and depart from arenas, when they are conducting interviews and when they are making public appearances." - Detroit Free Press </I>

Seems wrong to me.
Why is this a good idea?
mick

In an interview I heard on the radio yesterday, David Stern took the position that all of the other professional sports leagues have a dress code for their players, coaches, etc. He stated that NBA officials have to follow a jacket and tie dress code coming to and from games. He felt that the state of the game had been going downhill with all the incidents both on and off the court. The way the players presented themselves to the public was becoming an issue in the marketing and image of the game. After consulting with the other pro sports commissioners, he felt that tighter reign needed to be put in place to help improve the image of the game and its players. I guess he was going for the Crash Davis model, "Act classy, you'll be classy". Will it work? I have no clue. He said that fines by the League and by the teams will help make the code stick. Certain players, Alan Iverson for one, have already said they won't abide by it and will challenge any fine imposed upon him. I think I can hear the old role model argument somewhere in the background.

The overwhelming majority of employers have a dress code that must be followed while on company business. Why should NBA players be exempt? Nothing in the dress code is unreasonable. It simply projects a professional image, instead of a slob -- or worse -- image.

Why is this a bad idea?

P.S. -- Hamilton's right, btw. It's still a free country. Nobody can require you to dress a certain way. I suggest Hamilton immediately retire, give up his $8 million contract and get a job at a record store.

I gotta agree that it's not a bad idea. We have to uphold a professional image at most of our jobs (and on the way to basketball games), why should it be a problem for them? If I showed up at work with a bunch of ear rings and tatoos all over my body, I'm sure it would be brought to my attention that this is not the kind of professional image they want in the workplace...that is unless they canned me on the spot.

I dunno, Chuck.
I thought they already had to wear those baggy shorts while they were working.
Where does it stop? Will there be a breakfast dress code? how about hair care?
mick

But they're also working at the post-game press conference. They're also working (or at least "on company time") when they're injured and sitting on the bench during the game.

It's a stretch, but one could argue that they're working when they grant scheduled interviews.

Where does it stop? I don't know either. But I'm pretty sure that the code outlined by Stern is not unreasonable for anyone who has any real-world work experience. Maybe not common, but certainly not unreasonable.

I agree that the image of the NBA isn't what it could be. I have a hard time just sitting down watching a game because hip hop nation reigns supreme. I see absolutely nothing wrong with them having to wear "business casual." Have you ever watched Monday night countdown on ESPN? Sometimes the guys on there make fun of the players arriving for the game by saying "that isn't how you show up for work."

I see the other side as well. It is one of those things that will be debated for months and years to come. Kudos to Stern for making the decision.

Yeah, that all makes sense to me, Chuck.
Yet, the fans that could be "positively" [<I>... based, or debased, upon ??someone's?? opinion</I>] influenced by the dress code, may not really care if a player shows up to sign stuff in a sponsor's or team's sweat suit or a Bruno Magli silk.

<I>"To wear business casual attire ... when they arrive at and depart from arenas."</I> [sheesh!]
mick

Good idea IMO
 

I think it an attempt to help the NBA return to the glory days of Magic, Bird and MJ.

Michael Jordan always dressed for every press conf, every interview, Magic, Bird the same.

The NBA image has suffered tremendously by allowing the players to run the show.

I think the NBA realized if they don't get control, its going to be downhill even more quickly than is now.

As Stern said, "if they don't like it, they can find employment elsewhere, that's their choice whether they want to be in the NBA or not."

And Phil Jackson pretty much echoed his sentiments on ESPN this morning.

Those are guys who know what's going on I guess.

Thanks
David

Re: Good idea IMO
 

I dunno about Larry Bird, But it seems to me that Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson always looked great with diamond earings, golden chains or whatever.
How much bling is bling?
mick

Re: Re: Good idea IMO
 

yeah michael did have the big earring, but never the chains.

Magic was always clean as a whistle.

Thanks
David

It is a bad idea because no one in the history of the game was doing this. NBA players have been some of the best dressed athletes around. I think this is a cultural issue and an age issue. There are players from different countries that do not dress under this dress code. There league is mostly an African-American, urban league of players and many of those players do not come from a background that this type of dress would be common. The comparisons with other forms of jobs are ridiculous as well. I know people in construction, they are not wearing business casual when they are going to work. These guys are in a profession where they change into a uniform and get all sweaty and we expect everyone to be in a suit? I also think the NBA could possibly alienate many of their fans that buy video games and their throwback jerseys and support the buying of shoes. It is not just the corporate interests that support the league. It is people that "cannot afford a ticket" to the game that gives the players and the league revenue.

And before someone thinks I am crying racism, I am not. If you have ever seen Steve Nash or Bill Walton's son before and after games, this is not about race. It is about age and what is acceptable amongst a younger generation.

Peace

Good idea, the hip hop clothing the players wear is a image others look to emulate. People will see the latest fashion players will be wearing and try to emulate that image too. I read a passage yesterday where it was brought up that some players make more then others (true). The minimum salary last year for a player was $385,000 if you cannot purchase clothing based off of that salary something is wrong. I say join one of the Armed Forces and live off their salary. How much does a pair of Docker; button down shirt; and a pair of Stacy Adams cost? Give me a break!!!

Standards are like women; can't live with'em can't live without them. No pun intended :D

Hey Jeff, you're of a younger generation.

How do you dress to your basketball games?

Mr. Rut, What is wrong with a little change? You cannot compare construction to the NBA one is done indoors the other outdoors under different conditions. In both sweat is produced. However, construction is hot and dusty; nba air conditoned building. People have to accept change regardless of their upbring. What do you say about those African-Americans who do make it and turn their backs on their own culture huh? Mr. Stern, IMO is not out of touch and age does not have anything to do with it IMO.

Well, it took a hour and 25 minutes longer than what I predicted to myself when I first saw this thread. Must be getting old.

I am not that young now. I am not 18 years old and a millionaire. I did not come from an urban background and from the same generation of people that dress like Allen Iverson.

In my job I have to wear a suit most of the time. I can at certain times wear business casual if I am meeting with customers or it will depend on who I am meeting with. I do not like to wear suits to basketball games (I do not like the space and cleanliness in many HS locker rooms). I usually wear one of several polo shirts and a nice pair of pants when I am working varsity games. I sometimes wear a very nice pair of jeans depending on where I am working. If I am working a lower level game, I might wear a sweat suit (usually with an association logo on it) or something really laid back. I tend to wear a lot of things that signify an association or have something with the IHSA logo on it.

Peace

I have no idea what you are talking about JR...

BTW...did you see that player last night on ESPN saying this new dress code is racially motivated?

Jeff,

Iverson is 30, which I believe is close to your age.

It seems to me that you dress at least business casual when going to your games. I know I do. In fact it's expected of me (not that it makes a difference btw), and I would bet it's expected of you. For sure you're expected to wear a suit when you represent the people who pay you IRL.

If I'm expected to dress to a certain standard, and you're expected to dress to a certain standard, why shouldn't Steve Nash, Bill Walton's son or Allen Iverson be expected to dress to some standards imposed by the people who pay him? When he's representing them of course.

I can make any comparison I want to. I do not know if you went to college, but it was rare that I would see a professor of mine in a dress or suit. Many times they wore jeans or sweat suits. I did not see suits very often and this was in the education profession. I know Doctors that do not wear suits and ties to work. I think it depends on how you look at this. I am an official and I do not have a dress code. Now their might be some expected dress, but people that do not wear suits in their regular life are not coming to games all dressed up. I wear nicer close to games because I feel it makes me more presentable, I would object to a dress code for everyone that officiates too.

I really do not know what you meant by "turning your back on their culture." You are going to have to explain that one.

I just think the NBA is being hypocritical. They allow hip hop and pop culture to invade their game all the time with the entertainment during games, All-Star Games and events and videos and tapes they promote. Are these artists wearing business casual? Are they even wearing suits when they perform on stage at an NBA event? Even the most clean cut artists are not wearing a suit or dress. If they have a problem with the culture, than play Frank Sinatra all day and see how many fans you turn off. Frank always wore a suit when performing. The Chairman of the Board should fit the image the NBA is looking for perfectly.

Look, when you insist on hiring 18 year olds and give them millions of dollars you are going to have a different attitude of people and how they dress. You have many players that are much older that do not dress that way at all. I think Grant Hill is a good example of that. Actually some of the best dressed people that I see are African-Americans. I know when I go to officiating functions, I get a lot of complements on the suits I wear. Sometimes I feel like I am overdressed because just about everyone in attendance is not dressed in a suit or anything like what I have on. I am also one of the youngest individuals in the room. So it is not all about age and culture. I just think the NBA or any league as a dynamic involved that it is silly to have dress code of this nature.

Peace

I know people that are 50 and they dress to varsity games as if they rolled out of bed an hour before the game. Allen Iverson did not come from the same background that I came from either. I would never have the tattoos and wear the things he does. I am also not a millionaire where my income is based on my image and I work in an entertainment industry either.

Well the teams pay them, not the league directly. So if a team wants to come up with a policy that requires I have no problem with that. Each team has a different culture and backgrounds at work. There is a different type of fan that attends Chicago Bulls games than attends the Phoenix Suns games. I think this should be a team issue, not a league issue. Once again, it is before and after the games. Even the Chicago Cubs has a different kind of fan than the Chicago White Sox.

Peace

That's silly.

The league is a business organization made up of the team owners and it's only purpose is to financially benefit the team owners by, among other things, setting policy for behavior on & off the court.

If you think "the league" has the right to prevent the spurs from signing Milwaukees's #1 draft pick then you have to agree they have the right to set a dress code.

Pretty simple imo.

IMO, that's probably the best point you have made JRut.
That it is an entertainment industry.

The industry is out there to entertain us...so you might think there would be different standards in dressing as compared to a Fortune 500 business.

But wait, isn't this entertainment industry out to make a buck or two in the process of entertaining us?
Don't they have the right, no responsability, to create an image that will induce profits?

C'mon, we have always known the billionaires are entertaining us with millionaires...call the millionaires "slaves" to their job...but they really are "free" to leave anytime they wish (as Chuck suggested in the record store comment).

I really don't care how they dress...but evidently, someone does, and that someone may have the power to make it happen.

Whether someone has the right or not is not the issue. I am sure they have the right to do something that does not make the policy right. The NBA is even trying to tell people whether the players wear headphones. I think that is a bit much now. I have no problem with a dress code. I just think the NBA needs to realize that you will have fans that are not from Corporate America that buys their video games and sneakers with their players on them and other merchandise that is not the suit wearing people. Most of us that attend games in the arena are never going to see what players wear to and from games. It is the TV audience that is going to watch those games and it will not be the executives of large companies that will if Ben Wallace wears headphones to a game. If you want to appeal to Corporate America so much, why not tell the players they cannot wear corn rolls or other non-conventional hair styles?

Peace

Just my two cents....

Most everything that is done involving millionaires and billionaires is done at a level that most of us can't compare to or understand.

The NBA is now in an 'image reparation' mode, because their league image has gone way down since the massive preps-to-pros movement that started in the early 90's. The league started to lose face with the corporate fan, the one's spending large amounts of money for sky boxes and courtside seats. If you pay attention to who was spending the money for courtside seating over the last few years, there are more and more entertainment types filling those seats, such as Jay-Z, Nelly, Usher, and Jamie Foxx just to name a few. With Jay-Z and Nelly getting into the ownership business, the 'Hip Hop' culture has made its way into the boardrooms of the NBA.

How can the NBA get Joe CEO and Mary VP back to those courtside seats? Make the product more appealing and 'mainstream'. What 'product' does the NBA have to market? It really only has the players. If the players image is 'thugged out' or 'Hip Hop', the suburban parents aren't going to bring their kids in to the games or embrace the players, although the kids are going to emulate these fashions and embrace the players on their own. It really has nothing to do with race, because I see it happening on both sides.

Athletes always want to emulate entertainers, who always want to emulate athletes. Fans want ot emulate either. Just life as it always will be.

LOL :D

They're called "ringside" seats in Detroit. :)

why not tell the players they cannot wear corn rolls or other non-conventional hair styles?

Sure, why not?

The company I work for regulates my hair length. In fact they regulate the length of mustaches, sideburns, and do not allow "soul patches"(the patch of hair under the lower lip, for you non-hip dudes'info). ;)

We also cannot have facial hair...of course that is understandable, since we have to be able to wear a gas mask on a quick response. (Nuclear Power Plant Tactical Response Team)

Also, no nose rings or tongue piercings allowed at my place of employment.

If I don't like it...then I won't let the door hit me in the a$$ on the way out.

So you think I would feel sorry for a bunch of spoiled millionaires if they were told they had to wear their hair a certain way?
I don't think so.

My fiancee hates when I refer to Detroit that way, but she knows it's true.

LOL :D

BTW, ThickSkin posted his feelings earlier in this thread that emphasize my point exactly about the image of the NBA.

I'm @ the same age as some of the older NBA vets, and have grown up and dealt with the changing fashion trends from a parental and authority standpoint. I have to explain to my 15 year old son over and over that "the belt is supposed to be worn over the waist, not under the butt!" He feels it's cool to look like everyone else, but once I told him where this particular 'fashion statement' originated (in prison), he has adjusted some. It is a daily battle, but I'm getting somewhere.

Why do you have to feel sorry in order to disagree with a policy? My point is it screams of hypocrisy to say "Corporate America" is the concern when that same "Corporate America" does everything to appeal to people that look like the players with their marketing strategy. Of course they can do whatever they like, that does not mean all of us have to agree with it. I also understand why some feel this is a racial issue, because you do not see the NFL or NHL doing this. The policy that the NBA is using might not be racist, but the perception that "Hip Hop" culture is run by Black people is not only wrong but directed. I live in a lily white suburb and I see the same cloths on kids out here as I do when I go to the heart of the inner city. The difference might be that the white kids are wearing Abercrombie & Fitch, and the inner city kids might wear FUBU and Enyrce. Everyone wears Timberland Boots (or similar style and company) which are now outlawed by the NBA.

Peace

Any employer has the right to define acceptable on-the-job behavior and dress. The teams, as franchises, must follow the requirements specified by the franchiser (the NBA). Thus the NBA can impose dress codes on teams...and players.

As has been suggested, it is somewhat about age. They trying to get these players to stop dressing like 14 year-olds.

There is a LOT more of "Corporate America" that trys to appeal to people that are not trying to have this look. The numbers of people with this look are NOT a majority or anywhere close to it (perhaps so in the 12-25 age range) If the NBA wants to stay a viable business, they must maintain broad support across all ages. For whatever reason, they've lost a lot of support from the middle/older age demographics. It sounds like they believe the dress/fashion (and the behavior/attitude that seems to come with it) is a reason. The players can either do what it takes to increase the suppport and profits or relegate themselves to reduced contracts in the future when the fan base is made up of only teens and 20-somethings that don't have any money. If they loose the 35-50 year olds with enough money to buy $100-$200 seats, they'll not make it far.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Oct 19th, 2005 at 03:10 PM]

I really do not know what you meant by "turning your back on their culture." You are going to have to explain that one.

Culture was a wrong word to use in the situation. I should have went with Urban upbringing. They do not return and make a contribution to the communities in which they grow up in. They make give to the one they are currently living in. However, it is not the same. Some may take the mind set, I am not giving or going back to that environment under any circumstances. Now that I have made it!!

It makes no difference whether the players, or the fans for that matter, like it or not. If you're a player, you'll either follow the rule or you won't play. It's that simple. It's a done deal.

Is the NBA going to tell their owners to have a dress code? Has anyone seen Mark Cuban wear a suit? I have seen Jay-Z in a suit, but not at an NBA game. What about Usher? Remember, the NBA is making this rule, not teams. I would have no problem if a team took this position. I have a problem with the NBA making a rule when most of what happens off court is not seen. I have attended an NBA game and I never saw any of the players. They should worry about what the players wear off court as they go into the locker room.

Peace

Let's flip the question....

How would you feel if your employer told you you had to wear a certain uniform home from work? Not while at work, but when you're off the clock? And if you're seen in other forms of gear at any point until you got home, you would be fined?

I'm sure the NBA code isn't this extreme, but it could be. Once I'm 'off the clock', I should have the right to dress as I choose, since I'm representing myself, not company X. After I am done working for the day, I should have the right to throw on some jeans and a t-shirt, some shorts, a snow suit or whatever (no fishnets, please!!).

I understand where the NBA is trying to go with this policy, because they are definitely losing a large number of their paying fan base (35 - 50 demographic). These people can afford to pay the prices that the NBA wants to charge to keep the money rolling in and stay profitable. While I understand where JRut is going with his point that the league shouldn't make the policy, it is the league as a whole that is struggling with the whole "Image is Everything" concept, so it is a league-wide problem.

The NBA is run similar to McDonald's franchises, where there is basic uniformity in all of the franchises, but each franchise is allowed to have some creative freedom. But if you walk into a McDonald's in Boston, you will see basically the same thing as a McDonald's in LA, or here in Chicago.

I think comparing companies is not relevant to this discussion. I agree that McDonald's is one of the most successful franchises, but I do not think it is just because of the dress of the workers. McDonald's is not marketing their uniform for sale to the general public. The NBA sells a lot of what is outlawed for the players to wear to the public.

The players are also to blame for some of this; they allowed this to happen in their collective bargaining agreement. Whether you think the policy has some racial elements or corporate justifications behind it, the players signed off on this policy. I do think if this was some suburban kids wearing similar things this would not be an issue. I think the fact that this is a bunch of rich, defiant largely African-Americans now this is an issue. I really have a problem when the dress code talks about not wearing necklaces and headgear. I do not think earrings are the most professional thing to wear (which is why I stopped wearing mine all together), why are these not on the forbidden list?

Peace

And another thing....
After a game, those guys put on some regular clothes (at least they did when the Pistons and Bucks left the Bradley Center a few years ago) and then they set out to go to some pub with old teammates or friends.
The players, I would imagine, would like a few moments of normalcy when they can catch it. The frocking league should not feel the need to put them on display with that "to-and-from" dress code.
mick

Which makes my point all the more relevant. The NBA players are equivalent to Big Macs, Quarter Pounders, and Fries. So what the NBA is trying to sell is the image that these players fit in with the mainstream folks.

Everytime I turn on an NBA game, I see the great majority of the guys in the league look like me, only taller. I have had the opportunity to talk to these guys in locker rooms or out of the public eye, and they don't sound like they just left a gang-banging session. The vast majority of the NBA players have some level of college education and maturity to handle themselves respectfully. But then you have the Carmelo Anthony incidents, the Quintel Woods incidents, and you see these guys dressing similar to the guys I see selling on the corners, and I understand where Stern would want to make the change.

Not saying I agree, but I understand. He has a business to run, and he is trying to make sure that the business sells to those that can buy. He is to blame for allowing the Baller Mentality to invade the league, so now he's trying to fix it.

This article answers the question:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....1251992b.html

Here is my main idea from my point of view.

Is there a racial element? Of course there is. We live in a country that is afraid of Black males and resents their money making. I have not heard one person complain how much of a millionaire Mark Cuban is. BTW, Cuban admitted to the PTI crew he does not even own a sport coat. Cuban said he worked too hard in his life so he did not have to wear such things.

Is the policy going to change? Of course not.

Is this the best battle to fight? Not at all.

I think the players should raise the issues of race if they feel they should. We have that right to our opinion whether others like it or not.

If I was in the player’s situation this would not be a problem for me. I tend to out dress most people I come in contact with when I am going to games or when I officiate basketball. I do not wear tennis shoes and T-shirts to games. I know a lot of officials that do, I just think it looks tacky. I am also not into the jewelry or the Timberland boots either. Now if I am in a casual mode I wear hats and T-shirts in my off time. When I have business to take care of, I wear much nicer cloths.

Peace

Why don't you go away, get your story straight, and come back here & try to tell it again.

Take your time.

I believe that this society has many levels of racism. This is just another example on a lower level. I just feel it is not a fight worth having. The players will deal with it.

Peace

Of course they will deal with it;

Either deal with it, or find another line of work!

I like that, join the club that the rest of us are part of ... the working class.

THanks
David

You must be jealous. They are not the working class. They make a lot of money because they have a skill that people pay a lot of money to watch them work. Mark Cuban does not own a suit. I guess he should "join the working class" too. :rolleyes: The last time I checked, a lot of working class do not wear suits or even close to business casual.

Peace